Safe REVOLVER Hand Grasp

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Handguns have their origin as ONE-HAND weapons. I am not against improvements, know the advantages of using two hands, and avail myself of them at every opportunity. Nevertheless, nobody owes me any guarantees except history, and probably not that. Anyone who abandons tradition and takes it upon himself to use two hands to hold a handgun thereby takes it upon himself to figure out how to do so safely. The two most obvious dangers are flame-cutting of the support hand with a revolver, and thumb-cutting of the support hand with the slide of a slabside pistol. I am sure that others will devise new means of self-injury. Two of those might be to use a safe two-hand revolver grip on a slabsise pistol, and vice-versa.

Before you do this, be sure to figure out who else's fault it is.

 

[photoman]

JM...

YouTube

 

[ContinentalOp]

I'm not at all comfortable having my thumb extend past the front of the cylinder. Even if you work out a grip where your support-hand thumb stays behind the cylinder gap, under stress you could place it further forward than intended. For revolvers, I still think thumb-over-thumb is the best grip for most people. Obviously, if you have a method that consistently works well for you that's not thumb-over-thumb, and you're not endangering yourself, that's fine.

Same with semi-autos. If you want to maintain consistency, which, in my opinion, is a good thing, there's nothing wrong with using the same thumb-over-thumb grip with semi-autos.

Having said that, I do use different grips with revolvers vs. semi-autos. I think there are some pretty good biomechanical reasons for using a thumbs forward grip with semi-autos. In my experience, my front sight seems to track more consistently when firing quickly. But I don't think it's the only way to grip a semi-auto.

I use thumb-over-thumb with revolvers. I think part of the reason this works for me is because revolvers have smaller grips than semi-autos (well, my semi-autos...they're both double-stacks). I have small-medium size hands so I can get more of my fingers wrapped around a compact revolver stock than a double-stack grip frame. With semi-autos, that extra contact you get with your support-hand on the grip frame using thumbs forward helps with shooting quickly.

One last thought...I, too, had some concerns regarding using different grips for different gun types, but after doing quite a bit of experimentation I found that I didn't have an issue using gun-specific grips. Granted, I've never had to do it with someone trying to kill me, but I think with enough practice, even if it's primarily dry-fire practice, "muscle memory" will become programmed enough to do what needs to be done.

But as I previously mentioned, there's nothing wrong with using the same thumb-over-thumb grip for both revolvers and semi-autos.

 

[DrDoctor]

UPDATE –

I mentioned my own gun (revolver) grasp that I was heretofore using – called the “tea-cup” grasp shown to me by an ex-cop instructor (refer to comment #17 herein), where I grip the gun with my right hand, place it into my left one, grab my right one with my left one. While probably unorthodox, it was comfortable.

Now the update – one of the state patrolmen in this area was talking to me about signage on our property (another topic of discussion), and he asked me how I liked my gun selections. When I told him what we’d purchased, he asked if he could see the 460V. So, I did. We talked about it in some detail – he liked my rationale for selecting it, and the Taurus Judge (we wanted to stay with S&W, but the gun-shop didn’t have a Governor, so we went with “option B”).

When we got to the topic of holding the 460V, and the Judge, he wasn’t all that impressed. He stated that the recoil could actually lift the hand holding the gun (the right one) out of the supporting hand, and ruin not only that shot, but subsequent shots, as well.

His demonstrated grasp – holding the gun with the right hand, wrap the thumb and the middle finger of the left hand around my right wrist, with the index finger of the left hand extending along the outer edge of my right hand, ending approximately at the knuckle of the right hand, the ring finger, and the little finger, of the left hand wrap around the right wrist. It’s really quite comfortable, and was surprisingly easy to adapt to. Further, it DOES make the overall grasp of the gun feel more solid/rigid, and thus does provide increased confidence.

I fired a friend’s .357 revolver with a 4” barrel (didn’t pay attention to the type of ammunition he was using, as I don’t own a .357 revolver, so it wasn’t important to me . . .), and I did find the new grasp a significant improvement over the “tea-cup” grasp.

He also told me of a gun-shop/gun-range not too far from us owned by a retired “federal agent” of an agency that I shouldn’t inquire about (hmmmmm . . .). OK . . . To continue – this gun-shop/gun-range owner approved of the new grasp for both guns, but especially for the 460V. He also said it would be better for my wife to use on her .38 Lady Smith. She was using the “tea-cup” grasp, but feels that this new grasp provides greater stability for her much-weaker left wrist (resultant to an accident, and botched surgery – another tale for a different audience . . .).

Just goes to prove that evolution is a constant, even in something as simple as how to hold a gun. So, onward, and upward!!! Warmest regards to all . . . Thx.

PS – both the patrolman, and the owner of the gun-shop/gun-range, also hated the idea of the “thumbs-forward” grasp on a revolver. They did say that such a grasp was potentially beneficial to some of my colleagues still in medical practice. I’ll just let that comment speak for itself . . . Thx.

 

[Breakaway500]

The more you practice live fire..the more you find what works best for you.
Ive seen people struggle with gun holds to the point of frustration. I then tell them to relax..and hold it comfortably but with determination.The whole move toward lighter and smaller handguns,especially in Magnum cartridges, has really made a lot of new shooters gun shy to the point of flinching with expected poor down range results.

One hit with a 38 is better than 6 misses in 357...

 

[grinner]

I can never get used to thumbs forward on any gun. Semi or auto. I find locking the left thumb on top of a lower right thumb the most intuitive for me. Semi or Revolver. Plus there's the added bonus of not having it be in the way of the hot gases.

Same here. That’s how I learned eons ago, and i find I have better accuracy AND control of recoil — which is the opposite of what most who advocate the thumbs forward grip claim. I’ve tried the thumbs forward method, but when I get the palm of my left hand against the grip, my right fingers are pushed forward a little. This causes me to squeeze the grip with my right hand when I fire to maintain control, shifting the shots low and left.

When I use the older grip I prefer, I get a solid grip with the right hand on the entire grip - my fingers wrap halfway around the grip on the left side. I then cover it with the left hand, but don’t get much contact between my left palm and the grip. Still, it helps squeeze in my right fingers and I shoot a lot better with this grip. The gun doesn’t twist in my grip as I fire.

I don’t think either grip is better than the other. Just use what works for you. Thee are obviously grips that are bad or dangerous, but no single “best” grip.

I always wondered if the people who can’t seem to stop shooting low left would be better off abandoning the thumbs forward combat grip and going old school.

 

[RoyM52]

I use the grip pattern like that DrDr states above. I clamp the right wrist with the left hand. I don't lock the right thumb. Works well for single action revolvers. Allows the thumb to work the hammer without unlocking the grip. {maybe could be called a modified teacup}

Also works well with semi-auto's. Allows the right thumb to work the safety either on or off without any hindrance from the left hand. {left thumb}

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
I hold a Revolver and a semi-auto the same.
I NEVER put my thumb on the safety .
If you look , with a 1911, putting the thumb up causes the grip to open up.
This can cause the grip safety to back up and block the trigger.
As we can never tell what gun we might get a hold of at a giver time.
Having or teaching such a grip[thumbs up] is counter productive.

 

[amazingflapjack]

I guess many of us have seen the pics of the guy shooting the X frame like that-blowing the end of his thumb off.

 

[kthom]

I was taught to shoot revolvers with my left thumb over my right hand/thumb behind the hammer. My right thumb was curled down into my grip. I shot this way for MANY years and was so programmed to do so that when I had the opportunity to shoot my friends PPK semi auto, I took the same grip. I can show you the scar today where that slide came across my left thumb and sliced it open. I actually thought their had been a malfunction of some kind since the blood was flowing freely!

Since then, I have learned to pay attention to what style of handgun I'm shooting. These days, for the sake of consistency, I shoot both revolvers and semi autos (with no manual safety) with my right thumb curled down into my grip and my left thumb overlapping and gripping my right thumb at a slightly forward position. Nothing on either hand gets anywhere close to that cylinder gap! I have vivid memories of what it looks like when you fire a fully loaded .357 magnum with a digit out in the area of that cylinder gap. Thankfully, each time it's happened in my presence, it was not my digit that became the show and tell! I try to maintain as much consistency in my grip of any handgun, provided that there is not something that prevents it. And I tend not to regularly shoot any handgun that does not fit my hands in such a way as to prevent me from taking this grip. I'm surely not a great shooter, especially these days, but I did shoot competition for a good long while when those involved PPC target shooting. Yeah, that's been a long time ago! I also have evolved to shooting pretty much from an Isoceles stance for the reasons Miculek mentioned in his video. It just works better, I have better balance and shooting consistency, especially when there is more than one target in play.

My biggest challenge is that I shot for many years while pulling my head down toward where I held my revolver. Glasses and Trifocals has confounded that practice. To see my sights as well as possible, I have to hold my head up straighter to allow me to see through the middle distance focal of my glasses. That actually is a much better place for my head to be, but old habits die hard, and I still find myself having to raise my head once in a while. Old habits die hard, so try your best to learn good habits as much as is possible, and then practice them to death! Good shooting!

 

[scooter123]

I shoot ALL of my handguns with a thumb forward grip, revolver and semi. Even with the model 36 I just picked up my left thumb tip only extends to the middle of the cylinder. Note, my thumbs forward grip has the heels of both hands in intimate contact. Note, my hands have a span of 9 inches from thumb to little finger, so they are not small. Obviously I fall in the camp of those who have no issues with using a thumbs forward grip with a revolver. As for the rest, you really should test to see if your thumb would fall into the "danger zone" because you just may find that your thumb is also completely safe.

BTW the reason why I use a consistent grip with all of my handguns is quite simple. On one memorable range trip I saw first hand what happens when someone uses a Crossed Thumb grip with a Semi Auto and it ain't pretty. Yeah, pretty dumb of that shooter. However we shooters do our best to train ourselves so that every aspect of shooting is "automatic". Take someone who has mainly trained with a revolver and you have someone who is a prime candidate for making this mistake.

 

[DrDoctor]

Breakaway500 – Great advice!!! Thx.

Grinner – Interesting insight. Thx.

RoyM52 – “Modified tea-cup” grasp, I like that term. As for the left thumb in proximity to the hammer – I never gave that any tho’t, but you’re right, and that opens other possibilities. Thx.

Groo01 – Agreed. It reinforces the logic of using a consistent grasp, as one may not have a choice in handgun selection, especially in a critical situation. Thx.

Amazingflapjack – yep, and I know of a colleague who dealt with such a traumatic amputation in the ER. To paraphrase his feedback, he had no idea that a handgun could be that dangerous, causing such catastrophic injury and damage, to the user of the gun.

Kthom – I hadn’t tho’t about the potential of, nor the degree of the potential, injury resultant to careless gun grasp on a .357. I’m not sure it would result in a traumatic amputation of the offending digit, but I’m sure it’d present an injury that would certainly instill the desire within the shooter to not make that same mistake twice.
I’m also contending with the tri-focal issue. I’ve had several people suggest the tritium front sight, but have also been told, by many of those same people, that the tritium can be abit fragile, especially with something like the 460V. And, if the gun’s dropped, that’s likely to result in permanent damage to the tritium sight. A couple of those same people suggested fluorescent paint on the front sight, and another suggested using the radioactive material that was/is used on watch hands and the numerals/markings on the watch face. Both ideas I’m currently exploring. Thx.

Scooter123 – Agreed, consistency of a gun grasp is key to avoiding unnecessary self-injuries. I can see where using a particular grasp on 1 type of handgun, eg: auto-loader, probably wouldn’t be the most optimum grasp with a revolver, and vice-versa. I, too, have large hands, but I’ve never measured the span (altho’ I can reach 1½ octave on a piano . . .), so I did today, and my thumb/little-finger span is 10½” . . . hmmmmmm . . . maybe I DO have “monkey hands”. Thx.

To everyone who’s taken their time to submit positive comments and suggestions, I REALLY do appreciate all of them. They all provide me with insight to, and direction for, proper and safe handgun usage, and a semi-beginner, I think I’m safe in saying “I can use, and will accept, all of the constructive help I can get!!!" Thx.

 

[OttoLoader]

I use a modified one hand grip for revolvers and semis.
What I mean is I hold the pistol or revolver in my shooting hand (right hand for me). My trigger finger is free. The handgun is held by my three fingers on the front strap and meat of the hand and thumb on the backstrap inline with wrist and elbow. I use either more or less trigger finger dependent on what handgun I am shooting.If the hangun is small, j frame boot grip or Glock 26 then I curl my little finger below the grip. No pinky extensions.
My left hand is my support hand and only contact the open area of the grip for a revolver or under the dust cover of the semi.
I use this technique because it lends itself to one hand shots in SD. Also keeps fingers way from the cylinder.
Keeps fingers away from the slide or levers on semi or muzzle if very small semi such as an lcp.
I can grip the gun very secure this way.
Works for any size revolver J K, L, X. I only ashot the 500 mag with compesator. Adjust for small semis or full size.
The reason I do not prefer the thumb forward on a semi is it wastes contact area of thumb. Also wrapping support hand over shooting hand has less anchoring strength for me as compared to modified one hand approach.
Note that a GI 1911 with the small single side safety is ok to have shooting hand thumb below the safety. However extended safety as popular today, I put my thumb over the safety because I have bumped it on recoil sometimes.

 

[snubbyfan]

I recently saw another site wherein a self-proclaimed “expert” recommended holding a revolver the same as one would a semi-auto (ie: “thumbs forward”), given the user’s primary weapon’s a semi-auto, so as not to become confused in an emergent situation. Three of the prime directives I received from a GMCM while in the Navy were – 1) never point any weapon at anything you wouldn’t destroy; 2) never put any of your personal anatomy in front of any weapon (see rule #1); and 3) never put any of your personal anatomy in front of the cylinder of any revolver (lest you not have that anatomical part after discharging said revolver). I guess this aforementioned self-proclaimed “expert” never heard of “traumatic amputations”, as he “only gets a sooty finger”. His opportunity awaits . . . Opinions/Comments???

My sister told me that nonsense and while it may work for her, I wear XL gloves, have long thumbs and I like shooting J frame snubbies. I showed her how that doesn't work for everybody.

 

[Crh1943]

I use thumbs foward grip unless shooting anything bigger than .357 magnum. My thumb does not extend past b/c gap. This is much more comfortable for me and I have more surface area placing pressure on the grip to absorb & distribute recoil better, plus I have more control over the gun.

This works for ME as i shoot double action only for over 95% of the shots I take. I use single action MAYBE at 25 yards, more often at greater distances. I see no need for single action as i can pull the trigger back just fine and it has enhanced my shooting overall, especially shooting semi-autos.

Anyway, this article and website has a plethora of info. Please read

The Thumbs-Forward Revolver Grasp - RevolverGuy.Com

 

[kthom]

DrDoctor,

I use a dab of flourescent green Testor's model paint on my front sights. I've tried most all kind of sights at one time or another, and while they all worked OK, my paint job works as well for a lot less money. Tip: I put a light coating of white paint in the location I want it on the front sight and let it cure for about 24 hours. Then I apply the green (or the color of your choice) over the white paint. This seems to make the color paint color pop better.

I personally use a sharp toothpick to apply the paint in very small amounts. Too thick is trouble! No gobs! Again, allow to completely dry and set. I have found this method to last a long time without freshening up the paint, and I can see the sights as well and mostly better than any other(except night sights) at any time of day. My experience with night sights wasn't entirely satisfactory. If I used that kind of sight, it would be found only on the front sight with none on the rear. Three dot sights can be confusing in the dark for me. Actually, I use Crimson Trace laser grips on my carry revolvers. Now there's a great night sight! And they fit my hands pretty well, but that's another story.

But I suggest you try the paint on your sights before buying expensive tritium night sights that will eventually (no time soon!) begin to dim and have to be replaced. You might like the paint just fine. If the paint doesn't work, soak it for a bit carefully with laquer thinner and it will clean right off! Good luck. All this is just my suggestion of course, for whatever it might or might not be worth.

 

[DrDoctor]

Snubbyfan – The reason(s) why that self-proclaimed “expert” would put forth the usage of the same grasp for revolvers AND auto-loaders eludes me, and based upon other things he’s offered, I don’t think I’m even going to figure out why. Another example of: “You just can’t fix stupid”. Thx.

Kthom – I’ve read about the paint on the front sight, and putting a base-coat of white on to provide a brighter result for the color top-coat. I’ve got reservations about the tritium sights concerning the durableness of them, but I’m still gathering info. I’ve been doing some research lately on luminescence, and the 3 types of luminous paints: radioluminescent, phosphorescent, and fluorescent.
Radioluminescent paints are based on radium-226, which is a radiological hazard, emitting gamma-rays that can penetrate glass, and into human tissue – not good!!! Just look at what happened to the “Radium Girls” in the mid-20’s. The half-life of Ra-226’s 1,600 years!!! in the mid-20th century, radium began to be replaced with promethium-147. While Pr-147’s safer than Ra-226 – the half-life of Pr-147’s only 2.62 years, so they aren’t very suitable for long-life applications, All of this brings us to tritium, which only has a half-live of 12.3 years, but the radiation’s released in beta-rays, rather than the much stronger gamma-rays of radium.
Phosphorescent paints are made from phosphors, such as silver-activated zinc sulfide, , or doped strontium aluminate. The downside of these paints is that they have a sustained glow which lasts up to 12 hours after exposure to light, fading thereafter.
Fluorescent paints glow when exposed to the long-wave UV frequencies, aka “black-light”. But, the complex pigments tend to degrade quickly in natural sunlight.
So, I’ve still got some work cut out before me before I can make my final decision. Thx.

Again, my sincere gratitude to those who’ve submitted positive/helpful comments/suggestions to me. Thx.

 

[patrol]

Thumbs forward works just as well on revolvers as it does autos, and truly does offer better recoil management and a much increase ability to "drive" the gun at speed.

 

[WR Moore]

DrDoctor, your posts confirm that you need a different instructor.

Thumbs forward on semis may work depending upon your hand size and the location and configuration of the controls of the handguns. You may be able to use the system on some guns/models, not on others as your hands may cause malfunctions.

 

[DrDoctor]

“Safe REVOLVER Hand Grasp”

Continental – Please take note of the title of this topic – your detailed description of the grasp you use on a 1911 semi-automatic isn’t really relevant to the topic at hand here.