My standard load has been 5.0 grains for many years. The recoil is starting to bother my wrist. I loaded 100 rds with 4.5 and they seemed to work ok and the brass didn't go far. How low can I go with the gun continuing to function properly?
.45acp, 200gr cast bullet, 231 Powder How low Can You Go?
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AJ
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A 1911 platform? You can go down a bit more for sure. Also to keep the pistol functioning properly use a lighter recoil spring. https://www.gunsprings.com/COLT/1911+GOV'T+PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID1#3
I have gone a low as a 10 pound spring with softball loads.
I have gone a low as a 10 pound spring with softball loads.
OP
Yes, AJ it is a 70 Series GC. Based on the Wolfe packaging I found, it is probably a 16 or 18 pound spring.
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I've never gone real light on 231, mainly because it's not recommended in the books. Probably has something to do with inefficient burning and too low a velocity if you go extra light. I'd try several varying charges just to see what the accuracy, velocity, and proper functioning of the pistol was. I wouldn't go below about 675 fps muzzle velocity. That's with 200 grain cast bullets; don't know about jacketed.
AJ
US Veteran
Back when I was shooting "softball loads" it was in a Colt M1911 that I had built from pieces/parts into a match gun. The load I was using at the time was 3.0 grains of Bullseye with a 185 grain cast SWC. With a heavier spring it would not cycle properly. Back then I was shooting 50K a year through the pistol. I was on a range eight hours a day teaching and training Combat Pistol and practicing for Bullseye and IPSC.
Nowadays I am using an original Series 70 GCNM. I use 3.5 grains of Bullseye with either a 185 or 200 grain cast SWC. Works well for me. Now maybe 25-50 rounds a week (one day a week).
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I basically put the 1911 platform away years ago when I started shooting Pre-Model 25's and their kin....Brazilians and the venerable Model of 1917. That way you get your cake and eat it too, especially if you switch over to loading Auto Rim. That way your 1911 buddies can't use your ammo and you'd be surprised how many will follow suit and make the switch to a heavy revolver. My favorite plinking load for my big Model of 1955 is Berry's plated 200gr. FP over 6.0gr of Unique. That way you can shoot your large caliber bullet and reasonable speeds and get all the satisfaction of big gun shooting without the wrist issue and chasing after brass. After I switched over to Auto Rim, I never looked back and never reload ACP anymore. For those of you like myself that don't care for cleaning lead residue out of you revolvers, Berry's plated bullets are the catsass, you can run them as hot as you would any lead alloy. I have an ample supply of factory stuff to satisfy the odd desire to shoot a 1911 or my Big 45 HK.
I like to shoot my Model 52 and reload everything for it including casting my own full wadcutters, its mild in recoil and very accurate. It likes around 3.0grs of Titegroup and drops the brass right at my feet.
I like to shoot my Model 52 and reload everything for it including casting my own full wadcutters, its mild in recoil and very accurate. It likes around 3.0grs of Titegroup and drops the brass right at my feet.
I started using wolff variable power springs years ago (#42416). Using the same spring allows me to use light target loads in the 1911/45acp along with heavy loads and still have the 1911 function.
+/- 4.3gr of ww231/200gr swc in the 1911/45acp and things get iffy with the function
+/- 4.3gr of ww231/200gr swc in the 1911/45acp and things get iffy with the function
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I also recommend the Berry plated bullets, everything the same as jacketed but assemble way easier and cheaper, way cheaper.
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Also some powders like H110 are actually not recommended to load at reduced levels. Pressure goes up when load goes down. It was developed for the M1 Carbine and loading under max is NOT recommended.
GyMac
US Veteran
At the lower charges of 231 and the 200 grain SWC I would get a lot of soot on the fired cases showing that the case was not expanding very well. I would then increase the charge. I also shot a lot of 185 grain SWC's. All my loading is with lead bullets.
gwpercle
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With my 1911 AMT Hardballer and standard factory springs .
I get reliable functioning with 200 gr. cast lead SWC and
4.5 grs. W231 @ 719 fps ... any lower than that and I get the occassional failure to eject / completely chamber ... This is with standard recoil spring that came with the pistol..
Let us know what you discover !
Gary
I get reliable functioning with 200 gr. cast lead SWC and
4.5 grs. W231 @ 719 fps ... any lower than that and I get the occassional failure to eject / completely chamber ... This is with standard recoil spring that came with the pistol..
Let us know what you discover !
Gary
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Nothing firm on velocity. AMERICAN RIFLEMAN did a piece many years ago, during the peak of bullseye shooting on competition handloads. America's top shooters (not Internet experts) were asked to submit there favorite .38 Special and .45 ACP 25 and 50 yard loads.
Many used the same loads at 50 that they used at 25. With .45 loads, a very popular load for both distances was a 200 grain cast SWC (usually the H&G #68 design) and 3.5 grs. Bullseye. I use this load and it chronographs at 675 fps muzzle velocity. I wouldn't want to shoot any load that was slower, but it still works well at both distances.
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Use 200 gr lead rn for the 625 & 1911's. They semi's get 5.0 gr of 231 and the revolver gets 4.0 of 231 for softer shooting. Never use hard ball ammo, hurts the hand with arthritis. Larry
Reduce the load (and the spring) If you have a chrono check for broadening velocity spreads. If 231 gives probs try a faster powder. We just covered this pretty well with Titegroup in another thread in this forum. If you want my experience on light loads let me know and I'll copy it over here.
OP
I have gotten down to 4.2 grains of 231 and the 200 gr cast swc. I had one failure to eject out of 200 rds. I shot 100 this morning and no problems. They are accurate and much reduced recoil. Factory 9mms out of my LW Commander are much stouter. I will load some more over the Winter along with some of the stronger ones I had been loading.
I use 4.4 grains of HP-38 under a 185 grain lead swc with a .464-.465 taper crimp for my 1911 bullseye pistol. It has a red
dot and a 9 pound recoil spring. The gun shoots well and has no feeding issues and as long as the jerk pulling the trigger does his job it is very accurate.
dot and a 9 pound recoil spring. The gun shoots well and has no feeding issues and as long as the jerk pulling the trigger does his job it is very accurate.
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Get the Wolf reduced power spring kit.
The lightest springs will let a 1911 cycle reliably with light wadcutters, even if you have a slide mounted red dot sight.
You should be able to go down to 3.0 grains, maybe less.
This'll be fine for 25 yds, to be sure.
There's no risk in these light loads. I've used 3 grains for the .455 MKI case in a S&W .455 2nd model Hand Ejector. It makes a soft pop and nice big holes all grouped tight.
The lightest springs will let a 1911 cycle reliably with light wadcutters, even if you have a slide mounted red dot sight.
You should be able to go down to 3.0 grains, maybe less.
This'll be fine for 25 yds, to be sure.
There's no risk in these light loads. I've used 3 grains for the .455 MKI case in a S&W .455 2nd model Hand Ejector. It makes a soft pop and nice big holes all grouped tight.
I also like to use the Berry's bullets, primarily because I am lazy and find them much easier to clean up after than lead. I push them to speeds that I use a good quality hard cast lead bullet for. Which in reality is not much under the velocity of jacket bullets I use for purposes other than plinking. Especially in my favorite cut down 1917 model. I use Berry's exclusively unless I am burning through my jacketed collection. Rarely use lead at all anymore, especially in .45. I do use lead when it comes to black powder loads, although friends of mine that have experimented with coatings swear by them in much the same way we are currently talking about plated bullets. I've messed around with coated bullets and wasn't happy, tried the plated bullets and found a place to hang out.
AJ
US Veteran
My accuracy load with a 200 gr Cast SWC is 4.3 gr 231. I tested many loads with a Ransom Rest at 25 yards and this load came out hands down. I can shoot it all day and not be bothered by recoil.
AJ
US Veteran
Ransom Rests are fine. A friend has one and we have used it. We both prefer shooting off hand as it gives us a better feel for what the gun, load and shooter can really do with a specific loading.
I don't love 231 for reduced loads either, but I'd be willing to go down to about 4Grains.
I ran an awful lot of 205s pushed by 5grains of red dot, because I had a lot of both.
Lately I've been running 4.6of WST behind a 205 with better accuracy results and haven't had any function issues with factory springs.
I ran an awful lot of 205s pushed by 5grains of red dot, because I had a lot of both.
Lately I've been running 4.6of WST behind a 205 with better accuracy results and haven't had any function issues with factory springs.
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I've been using 4.4 WST behind a 200 grain SAECO #68 copy. Very good accuracy at about 800 fps MV. I don't change out springs. Standard ones are fine.
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It's gunpowder; they're all dirty. Cast bullets add to the "dirtyness" but as long as accuracy is good a little bit of dirt is easy to live with.
Regardless of the degree of dirt, the effort required for cleaning remains the same.
Don't think so: If I take my jeep down a muddy road vs a dusty one, effort for cleaning is certainly not the same
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Pardon me, I though the subject was guns, not Jeeps.
Jeeps, guns all relative to the conversation.
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