Safety manipulation on 3rd Gen Semiautos

[jja327]

I recently picked up a 5906. After shooting a 1911 for a while, the operation of the safety is second nature. Not so with the 5906. I find it awkward to use my strong hand thumb to flick the safety off. Using my weak hand thumb seems easier. How do you use the safety for situations such as at the range, protection in the home, and CCW? Did LEO carry the 5906 with the safety on or off?

Thanks
Jeff

 

[jja327]

I recently picked up a 5906. After shooting a 1911 for a while, the operation of the safety is second nature. Not so with the 5906. I find it awkward to use my strong hand thumb to flick the safety off. Using my weak hand thumb seems easier. How do you use the safety for situations such as at the range, protection in the home, and CCW? Did LEO carry the 5906 with the safety on or off?

Thanks
Jeff

 

[growr]

Don't know about LEO's but I carry all of my S&W autos with the safety OFF so that there is no fumbling around with anything. Just my thought in 22 years of instructing.
Randy

 

[handgunner356]

I sure not all, but most use the lever as a decocker only and rely on the DA first pull as a safety.

 

[BUFF]

Originally posted by jja327:

"CCW? Did LEO carry the 5906 with the safety on or off?"

That depended on the agency and their firearms instructors.

For example, L.A.P.D. trained to carry with the decocking/safety lever up, in the "fire" position. The word was, "Don't get caught with your dingus down."

At the same time, the L.A. Sheriffs Office taught to use the safety/decocking lever as a safety and flip it to "fire" during the draw stroke. The thought there is that, traditionally, one in five cops killed by gunfire are killed with their own or another cop's handgun. Having the safety lever "on" may cause the bad guy to take a bit of time to figure out which of the multiple levers and buttons is a safety and get the gun to shoot.

Both positions have merit. The main downside to using the lever as a "safety" is that, on the standard S&W and Beretta pistols, and most others with the same operating system, the safety/decocking lever is way up there on the slide, it is small and many people's shooting hand thumbs can't work it reliably and with certainty during the draw stroke.

I like the idea of using it as a safety. If I carried a standard d.a./s.a. pistol, I would find and install one of the oversize safety/decocking levers that were made by folks like Smith & Alexander. I have one floating around in case I ever do end up carrying one for serious.

There is no "right or rong" answer to this. Either manner can be good if the user practices until the use of the lever is instinctive.

 

[hale]

on my 5906tsw it is for decocking only

 

[shawn mccarver]

Originally posted by jja327:
I recently picked up a 5906. After shooting a 1911 for a while, the operation of the safety is second nature. Not so with the 5906. I find it awkward to use my strong hand thumb to flick the safety off. Using my weak hand thumb seems easier. How do you use the safety for situations such as at the range, protection in the home, and CCW? Did LEO carry the 5906 with the safety on or off?

Thanks
Jeff

Jeff Cooper referred to the Walther style safety used by the S&W autos as a "dingus" and he coined the phrase, "Don't get caught with your dingus down," meaning, do not carry with the safety on due to the difficulty of manipulating it in a fight where speed is needed.

Mas Ayoob, on the other hand, has documented cases where the dingus carried in the down or safe position has saved the lives of officers because the bad guy is unable to figure out how to make the pistol go bang and kill the disarmed officer before the officer regains control of the situation.

Thus, you have to do what is more comfortable for you.

Keep in mind that first gen S&W DA autos are not drop safe without having the dingus down or in the safe position. Second gen and newer have the firing pin block and are drop safe even if the dingus is up or in the fire position.

Good luck dealing with your dingus!

 

[Wyatt Earp]

I like to have my dingus up all the time.

 

[sasu]

Originally posted by Wyatt Earp:
I like to have my dingus up all the time.

That's normal, people always want things they cannot have.

 

[WR Moore]

Mas's reply on the dingus issue was to the effect that a real man got his dingus up when necessary and kept it up as long as required.

I carried with safety on for lo many years without problem once I was taught the easy way to flick the thing to the fire position. The thumb is kept straight-parallel to the slide- and moves alongside the grip where it kicks the safety to the fire position. My safety got flicked off right after the thumb break (only on the duty holster) was released and before I achieved final grip on the weapon. Please be advised that this may not be in accordance with generally accepted practices and that anyone duplicating this method assumes all liability resulting from same.

Assuming the grip and then trying to poke the safety off is difficult at best.

 

[Wyatt Earp]

When I carry my 915 I carry it decocked and off safe not because the safety is difficult and unnatural to operate once the gun is gripped (even though it is), but because I WANT all my handguns to function the same: grip, draw, pull trigger, fire.

I want ZERO additional manipulations. And while I can tolerate the two trigger pulls of a DA/SA auto, I much prefer a constant pull for every shot, which is why I much prefer my M&P to my 915 and why I am thinking of buying a 5943.

If you guess that I do not care for 1911s, High Powers, and other single action only semi autos, you guessed right.

 

[sasu]

I go along the lines of Wyatt Earps's reasoning above.

As a user of different types of pistols, I want these two automatic procedures embedded in my spine: (1) swipe down a safety or (2) do not manipulate any safeties.

I do not want to add a third procedure which would be: (3) push up the safety.

These different procedures can be learned but I have not done that, yet.

 

[Cruiser RN]

I eliminated the problem with a DAO Conversion and trigger job on my CS9.Pull trigger it goes boom.Simplicity is beautiful.......God Bless...Mike

 

[Bullman]

I was a student of Ayoob's writings early in my career (never could afford to go to one of his schools though ) and I carried my 4506 /4566 with the dingus down. I never had any problem getting my dingus up either, I practiced a lot and it just became second nature to me.

 

[hd1.]

I'd rather not have a safety on my carry guns. I wrote to S&W asking about converting the "Manual Safety Lever" on my 4506 to a "spring-return decocker". They replied that they will perform the conversion for about $125. I haven't made this a priority, as the 4506 is not my primary carry, but when I do carry it, the safety is always off.

If I ever get a shoulder holster and start to carry the 4506 more often, I will spring for the conversion also.

 

[ldp4570]

When I was an LEO, we were issued the 4506, for those that couldn't handle it they were issued a 3906. Policy was chamber loaded safety off. If you were caught carrying with safety on, you would receive a repremand. Safety was to be utilized as a decocker nothing else. Its still the way I carry my 4566 or 3913.

 

[Jhp147]

Just checked the book as I recalled it was called a decocker by Smith, but they call it a "manual safety de-cocking lever" in some of the diagrams in the armorer's manual. That would seem to settle the issue firmly on the fence in their eyes, at least. Seems like one of the guys that took a transition class from a Smith instructor years ago said he insisted it was a de-cocker.
Glad we are in agreement that there may not be agreement.

 

[hd1.]

As I stated in my post, S&W acknowledges that many gun owners dislike the "Manual Safety Lever" on the xx06 models. Enough so, that S&W is set up to convert the "Manual Safety Lever" into a "spring-return decocker" (for a price, $125). There is a solution; like most solutions it has it's price.

 

[DJINCO]

Decocker only for me.

 

[sasu]

You reckless Glock generation youngsters! A pistol without a safety! Please spare me from this absurdity.