Safety vs No Safety

[ccalda]

Speaking directly in regards to a firearm that is used for everyday carry and on the person in the fully loaded condition, does the reader prefer to have a thumb safety on, off, or is the preference not to have a thumb safety at all?

For anyone who responds, thank you for your time an input.

 

[mscampbell2734]

As a working police officer I carried both Beretta 92s and Smith 3rd Gen autos. I always carried with the safety/decocker OFF. I felt the long heavy DA first shot was safety enough.

Now I carry a Glock. I carry the Glock with a round in the chamber but NEVER carry without a holster. I admit with the Smith and Beretta sometimes for a short trip out of the house I would waistband carry without a holster but safety down. Like I said this was for SHORT trips only, and never for duty carry.

 

[18DAI]

On duty, safety off - pistol is a 4566 decock only. Off duty, 4513TSW with IWB holster, safety on.

I've trained to sweep the safety off on the draw for many years. Even with the decock only 4566 my thumb still sweeps for the paddle - thats already up.

I like pistols with a safety/decocker. I have no use for striker fired tupperware. Regards 18DAI

 

[crofoot629]

I prefer the frame mounted safety of a 1911.

However I was issued a Glock at work. Though retired I have three Glocks. I'd prefer them to be S&W, M&P's with frame mounted safety's. For me it's too late to switch hourses mid stream.

With training the frame mounted safety of a 1911 doesn't slow a shooter down, and adds, well, safety. Just look to IPSC.

Emory

 

[beradon]

Any Interesting Question

I think carrying a gun with the safety off is dangerous and more likely to discharge if dropped which is why I only own guns without manual safeties. I am a Glock Armorer and own several along with 3 M&PC s, none of which have thumb or mag safeties.

 

[sniper47]

My daily CCW is a SW99-40 (sorry 18DAI) no safety except the decocker. When I carry any of my 2/3rd gens or Berettas, if it's in a OWB, safety on, IWB safety off.

 

[Natsmith77]

I carry a Glock because if bad becomes worse and i have to use my pistol I want to point and pull, that's it.

 

[Neumann]

If it has a thumb safety, I use it. On some pistols, the thumb safety also drops the hammer. On some of those, the safety/decocker also blocks the hammer and/or the firing pin. It is unsafe to carry these weapons with the hammer down and safety off because the pistol may discharge if dropped or the hammer is subjected to a sharp blow.

I do not feel unsafe carrying a SIG, which has no thumb safety. There is a positive hammer block, firing pin block, and a long, fairly heavy trigger pull. On SA/DA models, there is a decocker, but not on SAO, DAO or DAK pistols.

Nor do I feel unsafe carrying a 1911, cocked and locked with a round in the chamber, with the grip and thumb safety engaged. I'm not particularly comfortable with a Glock. The latch on the trigger is a joke (easily snagged in holstering), and the trigger pull is short and fairly light. At very least, I'd install the "New York" trigger, which is 9.5#, and avoid floppy holsters, holsters with open trigger guards, or Serpa holsters of any sort.

 

[JJEH]

I like to have a thumb safety...

 

[vista461]

When I carry my 4003, it's with the hammer down, safety off.The weight of the first double action shot is heavier than Glocks I have had and the M&P's I have now. So it's at least as safe as they are. I would prefer mine was decock only, maybe someday.

 

[Kudumaned]

I carry M&P9C with manual safety on in iwb holster. I carry 4013TSW with hammer decocked safety on. I figure theres more of a chance of an accidental discharge with safety off than i need to use the gun for self defense. If i have to be fastdraw, safety off ready to go and accurate i'm probably in trouble anyway. I dont understand the comment that if the gun is dropped with manual safety off its more likely to discharge than if dropped without a manual safety. Can anyone elaborate?

 

[Glenn H]

Discharge on drop

Way back in the day revolvers didn't have the hammer safety that prevented discharge when the hammer was struck. It was possible to have a discharge if the hammer was hit a sharp blow.

That is why so many old timers would carry a revolver with an empty under the hammer. (sorry if this is familiar to you)

It appears that some feel that this can also happen with a modern autoloader.

IIRC the firing pin block acts in the same way, it will not allow the hammer to go fully forward into the firing pin unless the trigger is fully pulled back.

That being said, all mechanical devices are subject to failure but I'd be willing to bet you could put a modern semi-auto into a paint mixer and you'd not get a discharge.

If I carried a piece I'd carry with the manual safety engaged. When I carried a M19 I carried it with all six loaded in the cylinder.

 

[TAKJR]

This is a personal preference for the owner to decide (obviously). Remember that when the feces hit the fan though, it will most likely be by surprise, and unless you are well trained (ingrained) to swipe off that safety each and every time you draw (no matter what) I prefer the safety to be off. Modern guns are drop safe (or can be modified to be drop safe with titanium firing pins and heavier firing pin springs such as in the 1911; Ruger did that with their SR1911 and Springfield Armory does that with their 1911s). Other guns have firing pin safties and yes, mechanical devices fail, but rarely.

I once saw a video on a cable TV show "It happedned to me," or "Citizens Under Attack" (I can't remember the exact title of the show) where a jewelry store owner survived a robbery; he was shot in the process however. This store owner gave a taped interview about his encounter afterwards and he swore up and down that he could not figure out at the time why his gun didn't fire. You can see on the video the criminal drawing his weapon and the store owner drawing his, then the store owner went down, and the criminal left unscathed. Later in the clip, the store owner showed his actual carry gun he had on his person. It was a Walther PPK . He later discovered (after the shooting and after he healed) that he left the safety on that day To make matters a little worse, it is worthy of note that the PPK's safety must be pushed up, rather than down like most guns. I don't know what type of gun he carries now, but that's hard proof that it can happen.

In ending, whatever you carry, mentally leave your residence prepared to fight to the death if one ever encounters death in the face, but remember that you may be with your family, girlfriend, whomever which may distract you from the task at hand a second or so (getting them out of the line of fire first and formost) and in doing so, you may forget that extra step. You need to be up and running, not down and out.

Just something to think about........

TAKJR

 

[Lost Lake]

Now that thugs are grouping up and attacking in mobs, I've taken to carrying a stick of dynamite, fuse lit.

 

[railinsp]

Old school safety on

 

[Neumann]

I carry M&P9C with manual safety on in iwb holster. I carry 4013TSW with hammer decocked safety on. I figure theres more of a chance of an accidental discharge with safety off than i need to use the gun for self defense. If i have to be fastdraw, safety off ready to go and accurate i'm probably in trouble anyway. I dont understand the comment that if the gun is dropped with manual safety off its more likely to discharge than if dropped without a manual safety. Can anyone elaborate?

There are some weapons, notably the Walther P38 and some S&W pistols, in which the hammer rests on the firing pin when the safety/decocker is off. Like the 1873 Colt Army, this can lead to a discharge if something strikes the hammer. There is a related disability, called the "Cowboy Limp", which you can look up on the web.

 

[Arizona5906]

Now that thugs are grouping up and attacking in mobs, I've taken to carrying a stick of dynamite, fuse lit.

So that's safety off right?

 

[Arizona5906]

I carry with the safety off but only in a holster that totally covers the trigger. All my carry guns are carried in double action condition 2, hammer down safety off. I always handle and holster with the safety on and then after holstering move the safety to off. I prefer the normal 3rd gen hammer drop safety like my 3913. Drawing the weapon ready to fire double action is best for me.

 

[boingboing]

On duty, safety off - pistol is a 4566 decock only. Off duty, 4513TSW with IWB holster, safety on.

I've trained to sweep the safety off on the draw for many years. Even with the decock only 4566 my thumb still sweeps for the paddle - thats already up.

I like pistols with a safety/decocker. I have no use for striker fired tupperware. Regards 18DAI

What he said. Ditched my M&P and went back to my 4566TSW. Only difference is I carry it with the safety on.

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

For me it depends on the type of pistol. If it is striker fired then no safety, if it is hammer fired, cocked and safety on.

James

 

[kbm6893]

I carry safety on. If you're gonna own a gun with a safety, why not use it? If you actually TRAIN to disengage the safety, it adds no time to getting your gun ready to use. How many of us think about stepping on the brake before shifting out o park? How many have to look down and count the clicks to shift from park to drive? And for every story that you can show me where a safety caused a person to be shot (usually because he didn't practice with the gun he carries), I can show you ten where the LACK of one got someone shot. Every night, I unholster my carry gun (3913) and flick safety off 100 times. Takes less than 5 minutes. The movement i automatic.

 

[pharmer]

Yep. Joe

 

[GerSan69]

Since my dept transitioned to semis in 1989, we've been taught to leave the safety off for S&W pistols. That's on or off duty. The safety is used as a decocker only. It doesn't make sense to train two different ways, IMHO. That's adding a separate step - safety off or on? - when you least need the distraction.

 

[kbr1]

Israeli carry for over 30 years...Be it 1911,glock,sigma,M&P,3rd generation,etc. Condition 3. loaded mag/empty chamber. Practiced this also on my range forever. Pull the weapon.rack the slide,engage... If a weapon is already aimed at you get cover fast!!!

 

[beradon]

Israeli carry for over 30 years...Be it 1911,glock,sigma,M&P,3rd generation,etc. Condition 3. loaded mag/empty chamber. Practiced this also on my range forever. Pull the weapon.rack the slide,engage... If a weapon is already aimed at you get cover fast!!!

Well, to each his own but IMO carrying without a round in the chamber is a good way to come out 2nd place in a gunfight. The x-tra time it takes to chamber the round (and it does take time) is enough to get you killed and what if you were shot in your weak hand or arm and couldn't retract the slide. Its a poor tactic and no serious "gunman" would ever carry that way

 

[kbr1]

As the above said,"to each his own" but I've seen too much reality to pretend I'm in an IPSC speed match or imitate "Sonny Crocket" on a TV show. We train hard with combat drills at my Dept. where Murphy's Law could be the norm and you're tunneling whether you realize it or not. Seek cover,(not concealment) and engage...

 

[kbr1]

Had to add one more note... Great tactics and great firearms w/ training go a long way,whatever method of carry is chosen. Observation of your area is vital,wherever your at. But I am a "Lawfully armed citizen"when not on duty...using a term like "gunman" in front of a superior court judge is not a good idea,regardless of whether that lifetime gangbanger's deadly intentions. And I have the upmost respect for all the comments made on this thread. Be careful and take care.

 

[Rossi720]

I carry safety off, being accustomed to firing a double action and that "pull" is why I carry with 6+ 1 in the chamber no safety

 

[GerSan69]

Bottom line to me is that no matter what condition you carry in, do it that way all the time. Drawing and firing is first and foremost accomplished thru "muscle memory." From my training and 35 years in this business, you're asking for trouble by expecting to have 2 "memories" for the same action. Whether you draw on-duty or off, your intent is the same - pull your weapon in response to a threat that may require firing immediately. You add milliseconds to your action by unconsciously "deciding" to flip the safety or worse, present a weapon with the safety on.
But hey, to each his own. I simply know what works for me, having been there, and how my 1,400-officer dept trains. Can't do much more than pass on the info! Appreciate the opportunity to share it!

 

[beradon]

kbr1 you side stepped my question - How would you retract the slide to chamber a round if your weak arm, shoulder, or hand was incapicated? No disrespect intended but your training officer needs to update his tactics ASAP and I speak from experience having spent 17 months in combat (25th Inf Div)