Pondhill
Member
I like the safety on. That's just me
Safety vs No Safety
- Thread starter ccalda
- Start date
My dept. training is with the M&P40 in a safariland retention holster,strong side hip. This is not my CCW weapon.CCW would be any one of my 3rd generation 9mm S&W'S that are like the original McDonalds hamburger..."look the same,smell the same,taste the same". As far as weak arm/hand incapacitation,racking the slide off the belt (strong side hip) w/ a 3rd generation is rather simple,(barrel at 6o'clock, trigger finger of coarse on side of frame. Gotta ask,how many times have you or anyone else been shot in the weakhand??? What if you were shot in the back?,the head?,the heart? I referred to my dept. training in realistic combat what if's.No brown cardboard representing a perp,but lifelike targets w/ instructors screaming in your ear,some targets innocents,some armed and dangerous...but the 1st thing you learn above all else,get cover quick. Been carrying concealed since 1984. If I had a dollar for every round down range I'd have retired long ago. My original comment was about how I've carried concealed for almost 30 yrs. It works for me.
My above debate with a certain reader is in noway trying to disuade anyone on what type of carry they prefer. I have worked in a high crime Sheriff's dept. detention center for 7 years this summer. That's about 84 months of gangers,drug dealers/addicts,murderers,pedophiles,and the list gets bigger. The worst thing in the world I have ever seen is (and yeah,it's happened) "Joe Citizen" arrested for "AWDWITK" because in his eyes,he was defending himself against an assailant bent on robbing him or worse. Bonds set so high that Bill Gates would have to post property. I respect the readers 17 month combat and entire military service. But careful how you use these tactics on civilian streets.You could wind beside the very element you've defended yourself from. I joined this forum because I collect and shoot S&W firearms and interested in collaborating with other people on the subject. I'm a strong advocate for CCw and the 2nd amendment. Stay safe and alert.
In my opinion this is entirely dependant on the particular arm carried. In my opinion, I want to carry safely & responsibly while being able to instantly present the weapon when needed. When you speak of "thumb Safety" that calls to mind either a 1911 et al or a browning HP and some others HK, Sig etc. In any case carrying cocked & UN-locked is a very bad practice. When considering more modern arms ie. Beretta 92ish, Walther P-38 or PP, S&W autos with slide mounted de-cock/safety most of these have an inertia firing pin block which prevents firing until the trigger is pulled fully to the rear. So, in effect it's always on "safe" so long as your finger stays off the trigger.
You must carefully consider the characteristics of the particular weapon you intend to carry. The features of the particular weapon and your skills/training dictate how you carry. I was in the CG for 30 years, 25 of these as a small arms instructor and a member of the national shooting team. I spent many years carrying 1911s on duty 'till we transitioned to the Beretta 92.
Here's how I carry...
1911s ... cocked & locked condition 1
TDA Semis... decock/safety off hammer down
Striker fired weapons... don't own any, Plastic is for keeping leftovers fresh.
DA or SA revolvers ... There is no safety, however, older weapons lacking a hammer block safety should be carried hammer down over an empty chamber.
However, what I do is not necessarily correct for you or your weapon.
In the end the safety feature you should most be concerned with is the one atop of your neck.
Know your weapon and know it well and I mean intimately well.
Practice your skills regularly or get professional training.
Cheers
Bill
Last edited:
johnnyloco
Member
I like the option of a safety for outdoor use in brush or around kids. Otherwise, I leave it switched off.
ImjinScout
Member
I carry a 6906 hammer down and safety off, as was stated that first heavy trigger pull is enough of a safety.
Do I sense some bias hehe
Reading this brought to mind a thought I have always wondered about how revolvers have no safety but many people genuinely feel more comfortable carrying one in relation to semi-automatics. Maybe it's that looooong double action trigger pull that's comforting.
mscampbell2734
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A couple of thoughts after reading through the posts.
1. If you train enough to where it becomes a automatic reflexive action , having the safety down does NOT slow down the draw.
Case in point. In Los Angeles the LAPD trains safety off, the LASO trains safety on. Both with Beretta 92s.
2. 99% of modern semi autos have a hammer block safety. No one is going to shoot themselves in the foot if something happens to hit the hammer.
3. Based on the age, training and experience of the shooter they are going to have a different comfort level.
ie. older shooters, WWII era, where taught it was completely unsafe to carry a semiauto with a round in the chamber,
60s to 80s era give or take like the security of a safety,
Younger shooters seem to like the point and shoot with long press idea.
These are just my observations of this thread. Feel free to make your own.
1. If you train enough to where it becomes a automatic reflexive action , having the safety down does NOT slow down the draw.
Case in point. In Los Angeles the LAPD trains safety off, the LASO trains safety on. Both with Beretta 92s.
2. 99% of modern semi autos have a hammer block safety. No one is going to shoot themselves in the foot if something happens to hit the hammer.
3. Based on the age, training and experience of the shooter they are going to have a different comfort level.
ie. older shooters, WWII era, where taught it was completely unsafe to carry a semiauto with a round in the chamber,
60s to 80s era give or take like the security of a safety,
Younger shooters seem to like the point and shoot with long press idea.
These are just my observations of this thread. Feel free to make your own.
Forgive my ignorance please, what does ASDWITK stand for?
Assault with a deadly weapon with intent to kill
I have 2 carry weapons, if I carry my Bersa Thunder .380 I carry with round in chamber, decocked and safety off, long triger pull acts a safety.
If I carry my Ruger SR9c I carry round in chamber, safety ON, can easily swipe off the safety as I draw.
If I carry my Ruger SR9c I carry round in chamber, safety ON, can easily swipe off the safety as I draw.
Neither my FS or 9c M&P's are equipped with thumb safeties. The Shield is, but it's a redundant component IMHO. On the odd occasion I'm carrying a 1911, thumb safety's on. With my snubby it's academic, DA, hammerless, long trigger pull acts as a safety. Carry all the auto pistols in C1. Revolver always is. Allow me another HO. I feel safer carrying my M&P in C1 without safeties than my 1911 that has 3.
JumpinJack
Member
Safety always off, sent the 3914 back to have it converted to de-cock only.
bp231986
Member
Its been proven the more steps you make a human go through the odds of us messing up increases greatly. True story 
Arik
Member
Only guns that i own that have safeties are my 2 1911s. If i like a gun but it has a safety im ok with it as long as its small and doesnt get in the way. I wont use it. If there is a version of the same gun without the safety i'll buy that one.
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Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
Not mentioned is the possibility of a gun grab. If you have a safety on and someone gets your weapon the safety may delay his shooting you with your own weapon just long enough for you to react effectively(BUG or regaining weapon control). Remember that folks who grab guns are not necessarily gun smart, they will try the natural thing-pull the trigger. Given that many of them are frequently drug/alcohol impaired, the presence of a safety may be a life saver-literally.
Another part of this issue is are you going to shoot someone who is trying to get control of your weapon? Particularly if they are unarmed, ask Mr. Zimmerman down FL way about that, he may have an opinion right about now.
The gun grab imlications are there for both the armed citizen and the LEO. Where a safety fits into your personal or agency mandated plan might become a real issue some day. I just acquired a M&P .357 and .45 ACP compact, got the safety on both of them.
Another part of this issue is are you going to shoot someone who is trying to get control of your weapon? Particularly if they are unarmed, ask Mr. Zimmerman down FL way about that, he may have an opinion right about now.
The gun grab imlications are there for both the armed citizen and the LEO. Where a safety fits into your personal or agency mandated plan might become a real issue some day. I just acquired a M&P .357 and .45 ACP compact, got the safety on both of them.
SSGT Pride
US Veteran
I have a Ruger SR9C and a MP40 with Safety on while carrying....I just bought an MP45 with no safety but never carry it daily. I mainly plink with the 45 for fun anyway so its never loaded until the range. I dont even keep the mags for the MP45 loaded at home.
If I were to carry it I'd have it in the closed type holster (Blackhawk) with the retention lock.
If I were to carry it I'd have it in the closed type holster (Blackhawk) with the retention lock.
Badkarma 1
US Veteran
Depends on which pistol I'm carrying, but in the case of those with safeties, no I don't on 3rd gen Smiths, yes I do on 1911s and my new too me FN 57.
My only striker fired pistol is a SW99 in .40 and it's decocker and on DA mode. Dale
My only striker fired pistol is a SW99 in .40 and it's decocker and on DA mode. Dale
Excluding adverse and extraordinary conditions being placed on a firearm, every firearm mentioned on this page must have the trigger pulled in order for it to fire yet it seems like almost every responder who owns or carries a 1911 would never carry one with the safety off even though the gun will not fire unless the trigger is pulled.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this practice but it was interesting to find this as the general consensus.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this practice but it was interesting to find this as the general consensus.
ViperGeek
Member
Keen observation. As a recent fan of the SW1911, the recurring theme I picked up was to have it "cocked and locked with a round in the chamber." Given it's gorgeously smooth and relatively light single action trigger, I suspect it wouldn't take much to make a mess of the floorboards you're standing on if it were cocked and unlocked, especially if you caught the trigger on the way out of the holster.
Conversely, I wonder if uncocked and unlocked is a reasonably alternative? I s'pose it depends on which you can do faster: pull back the hammer or flip the safety. In my few minutes of handling a 1911, I'm thinking the earlier posters are correct: cocked and unlocked is best.
- Dave
sbeduckman
Member
I carry a 6906 safety off. I carried 1911's for years, so the safety on these goes the wrong way for my brain. After 1911's, I carried Glocks for a while...obviously no safety there. I feel safe with the hammer down and the safety off. I cover the hammer while holstering the gun just in case something were to get into the trigger guard. The bobbed hammer gives me some sense of protection from something banging the hammer hard enough to depress the firing pin. Everyone needs to carry how they feel comfortable; this is what works for me.
ViperGeek
Member
In an attempt to keep all this great information in one place, I'd like to resurrect this Safety thread.
I picked up an SW1911 Pro a couple weeks ago and became a huge fan. My previous (for two weeks) CCW was a 4567, and based on this thread have decided to carry that Gen 3 decocked and locked. Also based on this thread, I've been carrying my SW1911 around the house "cocked and locked." So far, so good.
Twice now in just a few days, as I shopped for holsters, I've seen stern warnings about carrying 1911s cocked and locked. They don't state that it's a bad idea, but rather that it requires advanced or specific 1911 training to be safe. Can anyone enlighten me about what specifically I should be concerned with when carrying a 1911 cocked and locked?
Thanks!
- Dave
I picked up an SW1911 Pro a couple weeks ago and became a huge fan. My previous (for two weeks) CCW was a 4567, and based on this thread have decided to carry that Gen 3 decocked and locked. Also based on this thread, I've been carrying my SW1911 around the house "cocked and locked." So far, so good.
Twice now in just a few days, as I shopped for holsters, I've seen stern warnings about carrying 1911s cocked and locked. They don't state that it's a bad idea, but rather that it requires advanced or specific 1911 training to be safe. Can anyone enlighten me about what specifically I should be concerned with when carrying a 1911 cocked and locked?
Thanks!
- Dave
ViperGeek
Member
For future historians, I'll answer my own question.
Other than the perceived visual implication of a cocked 'n locked SA pistol, there is no safer way to carry a 1911. I found an article and a long thread on this subject, included below for your reading pleasure:
Cocked and Locked by Robert H. Boatman
cocked and locked 1911: dangerous?
- Dave
Cocked & Locked
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