Schofield's Patent OCTB. 17 1876

[Colonel Gentlemen]

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What can you tell me about this?

 

[DCWilson]

Welcome to the forum. That revolver is not a Smith & Wesson, though it is built in imitation of one. That "ELG" proofmark on the back of the cylinder denotes Belgium. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, a number of S&W copies were made by manufacturers in Belgium and Spain.

It's missing some pieces, too -- trigger guard, mainspring, maybe other stuff from inside. The gun has not been treated well over the decades -- lots of screw mishandling and surface damage. I'd like to be able to tell you it is an undiscovered treasure worth a big pile of money even in its current rough condition, but it's not.

 

[deadin]

Well, I can tell you what it isn't. It's not a Schofield and it's not even a Smith & Wesson. It's probably what's left of a Spanish or Belgian "look a like" that tried to cash in on the Schofield name.
Are there and proof marks anywhere on it. They might give a clue where it came from.

Yep. Belgian! I guess that I didn't look at that particular picture.

 

[Colonel Gentlemen]

Welcome to the forum. That revolver is not a Smith & Wesson, though it is built in imitation of one. That "ELG" proofmark on the back of the cylinder denotes Belgium. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, a number of S&W copies were made by manufacturers in Belgium and Spain.

It's missing some pieces, too -- trigger guard, mainspring, maybe other stuff from inside. The gun has not been treated well over the decades -- lots of screw mishandling and surface damage. I'd like to be able to tell you it is an undiscovered treasure worth a big pile of money even in its current rough condition, but it's not.

I know it isn't a treasure, I didn't buy it as one, I bought it to tinker with and maybe shoot. any idea if the parts are interchangeable or at least adaptable, I'd hate to have to make the parts from scratch.

Well, I can tell you what it isn't. It's not a Schofield and it's not even a Smith & Wesson. It's probably what's left of a Spanish or Belgian "look a like" that tried to cash in on the Schofield name.
Are there and proof marks anywhere on it. They might give a clue where it came from.

Yep. Belgian! I guess that I didn't look at that particular picture.

It has a U with a star above it in a couple places, a J.D. under where the grips went, a PD or FD on the other side. S/N is 735.

 

[DCWilson]

Restoring that to shootability will be a challenging project. The European copies were suggested by S&W designs but did not follow them slavishly. Thus I would consider it unlikely that parts could be easily adapted to use in this revolver. Perhaps a mainspring could be used without much trouble. The hammer will be a problem -- looks like the firing pin has been broken off. I don't think you will be able to press a S&W trigger guard into service, as they were spring-tension snap-ins. Most of the imitations I have seen hook at the rear but are attached by a screw at the front.

I applaud your courage and initiative in adopting an old revolver to work on, but if you want something of that vintage that you can actually work on and maybe shoot, I would encourage you to get a Smith & Wesson Double Action or Safety Hammerless. If you have to replace parts, they can be found; the original workmanship will be higher; and the inherent safety of the gun will be greater.

I'm sorry if I seem to be raining on your parade. I am always willing to tear into old guns and try to clean and fix them up if I can. But I would resist the temptation to do too much with this one other than use it as a training ground for basic steps that you can apply to a sounder device later on.

 

[Colonel Gentlemen]

Restoring that to shootability will be a challenging project. The European copies were suggested by S&W designs but did not follow them slavishly. Thus I would consider it unlikely that parts could be easily adapted to use in this revolver. Perhaps a mainspring could be used without much trouble. The hammer will be a problem -- looks like the firing pin has been broken off. I don't think you will be able to press a S&W trigger guard into service, as they were spring-tension snap-ins. Most of the imitations I have seen hook at the rear but are attached by a screw at the front.

I applaud your courage and initiative in adopting an old revolver to work on, but if you want something of that vintage that you can actually work on and maybe shoot, I would encourage you to get a Smith & Wesson Double Action or Safety Hammerless. If you have to replace parts, they can be found; the original workmanship will be higher; and the inherent safety of the gun will be greater.

I'm sorry if I seem to be raining on your parade. I am always willing to tear into old guns and try to clean and fix them up if I can. But I would resist the temptation to do too much with this one other than use it as a training ground for basic steps that you can apply to a sounder device later on.

The mainspring is the part I was most worried about, well that and the hand.
The hammer can be repaired or I could make it an in frame floating firing pin.
I would love to get a nice S&W, but I got this by chance not for collecting reasons.

I actually did get it so I would have experience working on revolvers, but I would still like to shoot it at some point.

 

[DCWilson]

Understood. Good luck. I wish you well in your project.

 

[Colonel Gentlemen]

Thank you.

 

[opoefc]

Dear CG, I think David and Dean are being too nice, as they are gentlemen of the first quality! The gun isn't even close to having any connection to a S&W Schofield. Everthings different, caliber, number of chambers, frame dimensions, hammer, trigger, screw placements, etc., etc. I doubt if a Schofield hammer would work w/o major modifications and would cost more by itself that the gun is worth. Trying to get this gun in working condition will need a fat wallet, lots of time and good gunsmith skills. Not to say you shouldn't try. The challenge is there! However, if the day comes you think it's all there and working, then the big quaestion will be- Where do I get any ammo? The correct ammo. for this gun has long since been lost in the ash bin of history. It's obviously a black powder cartridge, of rim fire or center fire ancestry and of a long lost caliber. That's not to say you can't find a cartridge that will fit in the charge holes of the cylinder, but if it happens to be the wrong pressures, good bye fingers & gun. You will see pictures of your gun in catalogs of the European dealers, circa 1900-1930s, mostly for sales to Central and South America, hoping to fool ingnorant buyers into thinking they were getting a S&W. The gun's a conversation piece, hang it on the wall and save your time & money for a real S&W! Good Luck, Ed #15

 

[Colonel Gentlemen]

Dear CG, I think David and Dean are being too nice, as they are gentlemen of the first quality! The gun isn't even close to having any connection to a S&W Schofield. Everthings different, caliber, number of chambers, frame dimensions, hammer, trigger, screw placements, etc., etc. I doubt if a Schofield hammer would work w/o major modifications and would cost more by itself that the gun is worth. Trying to get this gun in working condition will need a fat wallet, lots of time and good gunsmith skills. Not to say you shouldn't try. The challenge is there! However, if the day comes you think it's all there and working, then the big quaestion will be- Where do I get any ammo? The correct ammo. for this gun has long since been lost in the ash bin of history. It's obviously a black powder cartridge, of rim fire or center fire ancestry and of a long lost caliber. That's not to say you can't find a cartridge that will fit in the charge holes of the cylinder, but if it happens to be the wrong pressures, good bye fingers & gun. You will see pictures of your gun in catalogs of the European dealers, circa 1900-1930s, mostly for sales to Central and South America, hoping to fool ingnorant buyers into thinking they were getting a S&W. The gun's a conversation piece, hang it on the wall and save your time & money for a real S&W! Good Luck, Ed #15

What IS the caliber then, I was under the impression it was .38S&W/.380 revolver.

 

[opoefc]

The gun was made in Europe. It 's caliber is probably a European caliber measured in millimeter, such as 7.5, 8 or 9 mm, or it could be a "One size fits all" type caliber of around .38, plus or minus. I've seen them marked " .38S&W Fits Best" which means you can probably get a 9mm to fit if you try! (A real Schofield is .45S&W caliber, of course ) If the gun has no believable caliber markings, then try a variety of rounds and see what seems to fit snugly and still extract, then reload that caliber to black powder low pressures for shooting purposes. Ed #15

 

[Colonel Gentlemen]

The gun was made in Europe. It 's caliber is probably a European caliber measured in millimeter, such as 7.5, 8 or 9 mm, or it could be a "One size fits all" type caliber of around .38, plus or minus. I've seen them marked " .38S&W Fits Best" which means you can probably get a 9mm to fit if you try! (A real Schofield is .45S&W caliber, of course ) If the gun has no believable caliber markings, then try a variety of rounds and see what seems to fit snugly and still extract, then reload that caliber to black powder low pressures for shooting purposes. Ed #15

Well, it fits .38 S&W like it was made for it, and modern commercial .38S&W is loaded to BP standard, is it not?

 

[opoefc]

CG, Yes, it is. You may have lucked out, in that if a .38S&W fits nicely, the gun was intended for the Central & So. American trade, as that caliber was common in that area 100 yrs ago. Look for any small cracks around the barrel forcing cone in case it was fired in the past with something hotter than .38 S&W. Ed #15

 

[Colonel Gentlemen]

CG, Yes, it is. You may have lucked out, in that if a .38S&W fits nicely, the gun was intended for the Central & So. American trade, as that caliber was common in that area 100 yrs ago. Look for any small cracks around the barrel forcing cone in case it was fired in the past with something hotter than .38 S&W. Ed #15

It's beat to hell, but no cracks, I have handled cheap knock off revolvers before, but this one feels solid, know what I mean?