Schools unlawfully prohibit weapons in Oregon.

[Carrot]

I just registered my son for kindergarten in Oregon. Signs at the school entrance prohibit firearms. Just this year, the legislature failed to pass a law that would have given school the authority to prohibit firearms on school property.

How does one address this posting of an unlawful policy? In Oregon, the constitution states that a local government can't preempt state firearm laws.

I'm looking for a little advice. We're putting my children's education at odds with my family's safety. It just doesn't seem right to me.

 

[jap85]

All schools should have multiple armed guards, either full time policeman or highly trained faculty, for other people, it is better not to bring guns except parking lot!!!

Don't provide ammunition to the antis.

 

[gdnagle]

All schools should have multiple armed guards, either full time policeman or highly trained faculty, for other people, it is better not to bring guns except parking lot!!!

Don't provide ammunition to the antis.

Not around here only protection is a buzzer on the door and lock, anyone wanting to get in only has to break the glass. Firearms not allowed on school property so if I'm out and have to stop by the GK's school I have to park off their property and leave firearm in the vehicle.

As to OP I don't know what the law is in Oregon but some states have laws that lets places post signs and deny people of their rights. You could try the school board but I doubt you will get satisfaction there, or spend your money for a lawyer and see if that works. You will still probably not be allowed to carry on school property. They make their own rules.

 

[dougb1946]

You can be trespassed off the property for any reason the school board deems proper. You may not get arrested for ccw, but if you keep it up, you could wind up with a criminal trespass charge and a stay out order from the court. Then, you could get a criminal charge. The 2A only limits the fed government. Property owners and renters can establish their own rules.

 

[Aticus]

I'm not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night but ...... check Title 18 U. S. Code Chapter 44, 022(q)(2)A. This prohibits the possession of firearms on school property except under certain conditions. This is part of the Gun Control Act of 1968. My reference is ATF Publication 5300.4 page 11 dated Sept 2005.

I don't know if this applies but it's there non the less.

 

[Comrad]

Isn't the point of concealed carry that nobody sees it?

 

[SMSgt]

You can be trespassed off the property for any reason the school board deems proper. You may not get arrested for ccw, but if you keep it up, you could wind up with a criminal trespass charge and a stay out order from the court. Then, you could get a criminal charge. The 2A only limits the fed government. Property owners and renters can establish their own rules.

Not quite true.

 

[dougb1946]

Not quite true.

Close enough so that I don't want to push the issue with the local PD.

 

[Ben_hutcherson]

...... check Title 18 U. S. Code Chapter 44, 022(q)(2)A. This prohibits the possession of firearms on school property except under certain conditions.

That particular section of the law lists 7 specific exemptions under which the law does not apply. (ii) is the most relevant, and states that

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm...(ii)if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

It is my understanding(I'm not a lawyer either) that most CCW licenses qualify for this exemption, provided that they were issued by the state in which the school zone is located.

 

[Carrot]

This is exactly what I'm getting at. The law does give us the right to carry at schools. Schools can prohibit students and staff from carrying as a condition of attendance and employment, but there is no such relationship between the school and non-attending public.

The law(Oregon State Constitution) also does not give the school or other local government agencies the authority to restrict gun rights. Only the state legislature can do this.

So, in essence, the school district is posting something they don't have the authority to post. We, as a society, shouldn't accept governments assuming authority that it doesn't have. I'm looking for advice on how to address this problem.

I'd hate for a person who normally carries to be at the school unarmed when some defensive force is needed. Many people won't carry if they think they legally ought not. This posted rule is depriving my son of security at school, and it isn't right.

 

[Aticus]

Carot, were I you I'd check with a lawyer well versed in such laws before I'd carry in the school. As I said I don't have the problem I'm just careful about such things.

 

[dougb1946]

I'd hate for a person who normally carries to be at the school unarmed when some defensive force is needed. Many people won't carry if they think they legally ought not. This posted rule is depriving my son of security at school, and it isn't right.

98,000 schools in the U.S. There were shootings in 7 in 2012.
You are probably safer in the school than while driving to the school. Contrary to CNN, school shootings are rare.

I am not familiar with Oregon law, but in MN, the school board decides, as owners of the property, if you can carry in the school the same as you decide who carries on your property. Some big city schools have a police presence. A few rural have an armed teacher or two, but the principal has to give permission.

 

[joesmith357]

I'm not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night but ...... check Title 18 U. S. Code Chapter 44, 022(q)(2)A. This prohibits the possession of firearms on school property except under certain conditions. This is part of the Gun Control Act of 1968. My reference is ATF Publication 5300.4 page 11 dated Sept 2005.

I don't know if this applies but it's there non the less.

That's what I thought too, thought this federal law made state laws on the issue irrelavent.

 

[bluegrassarms]

As I read Carrot's post I don't think he wants to carry there so much as take down the signs that prevent carry and make that school a "gun free zone" target for a lunatic. It's a bullseye for those people.

The GCA doesn't restrict permit carry in schools afaik and doesn't give schools special power to ignore state law on the subject. If state law says they can't restrict carry access I'd say they've got no leg to stand on.

Carrot, is your state Rep or Senator sympathetic to the pro-gun cause? They'd be my first stop. They would have the quick access to the legislative legal resources to answer the question of legality and also the ability to take action.

I don't see anything wrong with going to the school board either, very respectfully, and ask if this is board policy or if the school did it on their own. I wouldn't go to public war over it right then and there, just gather facts. I'd approach a member or two, not go to a public meeting. They'll be very defensive in that environment.

If it is board policy I might raise the issue that they don't have that authority, but not press it hard. Just gauge the level of resistance. Again, not in a public meeting but privately if possible, try to make it as easy as possible for them to not look like they're being pressured to a particular action.

It also keeps anti-gunners from grandstanding on the issue and trying to make it a referendum on "guns in schools", which is not the real issue.

If the school board is unresponsive and the legislators who represent you I'd contact one or more of the following 3: any state legislators who are champions of the gun cause, any state gun association that has been involved in lobbying and legal cases on the gun issue who may be willing to take on the issue, and the NRA-ILA. The latter two will take on cases like this.

try to keep it low profile to start, sometimes that can get action easier than a public display. If it's just the principle doing it maybe they can just be quietly removed and it's over, or the legislator can contact a school board official and work out a quiet removal. Your goal is just to get them down, not become national news. Just my .02, and if the nice approach doesn't work it doesn't preclude the tougher options like NRA-ILA or other lobby involvement.

I'm with you on not wanting the signs up. Has nothing to do with me carrying there, has to do with there not being a bullseye on the door.

 

[bobermo]

I would suggest contacting saf.org

 

[Carrot]

I would suggest contacting saf.org

Thanks, I just did. We'll see how they respond.

 

[David Armstrong]

I just registered my son for kindergarten in Oregon. Signs at the school entrance prohibit firearms. Just this year, the legislature failed to pass a law that would have given school the authority to prohibit firearms on school property.

How does one address this posting of an unlawful policy? In Oregon, the constitution states that a local government can't preempt state firearm laws.

I'm looking for a little advice. We're putting my children's education at odds with my family's safety. It just doesn't seem right to me.

I wouldn't worry about the safety issue. In spite of all the hoopla, school is still one of the safest places for children to be. As for your legal issue, the first place to start is a letter to the school board asking them for the legal authority for the sign and a clarification if it applies to visitors or only staff and students. Then you will have a base to discuss the law with an attorney if you wish.

 

[Old TexMex]

I wouldn't worry about the safety issue.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
Personal, civilian right to keep and bear arms will always be opposed by some members of the government including some LEO. Never let complacency allow us to be disarmed.

 

[bluegrassarms]

I wouldn't worry about the safety issue. In spite of all the hoopla, school is still one of the safest places for children to be.

Statistically he shouldn't worry at all as it's unlikely his child will ever be threatened with great bodily harm in his life.

somehow I bet few parents operate on that assumption and just let the chips fall where they may.

Here's another way of looking at it: among modern spree shootings where 3 or more people were killed, all but one happened in a "gun free zone". While it's highly unlikely his child or any child will be caught in a spree shooting given the number of such shootings compared to the number of such zones, the chances of the next one happening in a gun free zone is incredibly high so why put them in one when the law says it can't be one?

The vast majority of people who carry will never experience a need for it, so if we live by the stats the way you suggest we really shouldn't bother to carry at all. I'ts a non-argument to me as I've already passed the point of just hoping for the best and doing nothing to plan for an improbable but bad possible outcome in my day.

 

[Carrot]

I wouldn't worry about the safety issue. In spite of all the hoopla, school is still one of the safest places for children to be. As for your legal issue, the first place to start is a letter to the school board asking them for the legal authority for the sign and a clarification if it applies to visitors or only staff and students. Then you will have a base to discuss the law with an attorney if you wish.

Even if the stats are in our favor, I'm not comfortable with the current safety plan in place. This school has a physically open campus with all classrooms open to the outside world. There is no way to lock down the school, only individual classrooms.

Also, we live in timber country where our public safety dollars are heavily tied up with dwindling resources trying to catch drug runners moving along I5 and scrap-chasing thieves. Unless the feds let us get back into the forests to harvest our abundant natural resource, the situation will only get worse. Many people in the area are in dire straights. If social welfare programs start to diminish due to budget realities, it's going to hit the fan.

If I wasn't a 4th generation farmer, I'd probably look at getting out of the area, but I'm firmly grounded here.

I'm not satisfied with the school board claiming authority that they don't have from an ethical governance standpoint. But I'm really not satisfied with the safety plan for the school being a sign because that's a really poor plan.

I thank you all for so many good ideas. I'll let you know if anything happens, positive or negative.