Scoping things out

[moe smith]

I like ACOGs, but I'm poor. So I've been reading about a few ACOG "clones". Most of what I've read has done more to confuse me than anything else. "This scope will hit prairie dogs on mars" or "I have Coke bottles clearer than this."

I'm sure many of you have read the same type of reviews.

I have handled a couple of cheapos in the 150-200 range which "seem" to be ok in the store, only to research the item later online to find it was made by a bunch of drunk gypsies who were tasked with assembling it to reduce their amount of time served before being released on parole.

So. The question I have is this. What recommendations are out there for a middle of the road ACOGish style scope for my currently glassless M&P15. I suppose I like a zoom 1-4 ? 3-9 ? I'm open for suggestions.

For the record, I have looked at red dots (EOTECHs) with and without magnifiers. I'm really not crazy about the idea though, based on how much I see the red dot bounce around in relation to the target or front post. Not sure if that is a product of wearing eyeglasses, or I just haven't mastered the "put my cheek in exact the same spot" exercise. In any event, for the moment, let's just skip over the whole red dot option and focus on a scope of incredible clarity and value.

Any Suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

moe

 

[MichiganScott]

The dot "bounce" is caused by not having your cheek in the exact same spot. You will eventually get to ignore the front sight.

I've got open sights, dots, and scopes on my AR's, depending upon desired use. Dots seem to be a bit faster than even low powered scopes when used for the same purpose, but scope seem much more versatile. Save your money for a decent 1-5X scope.

 

[Damn Yankee]

Have you looked into one of these? I just bought one for my Franken AR15 I built and it is clear as a bell. waiting for the mounts to come.

P-223 3x32 Matte BDC Carbine from Nikon

Comes in 3x9 and 4x12

 

[moe smith]

Have you looked into one of these? I just bought one for my Franken AR15 I built and it is clear as a bell. waiting for the mounts to come.

P-223 3x32 Matte BDC Carbine from Nikon

Comes in 3x9 and 4x12

Thanks, I (am) did look(ing) at that. Nikon also has 2 variable power models (3-9) and (3-12) I believe that have caught my eye. Maybe it is 4-12, as you point out. All seem to be nice scopes, just don't seem to have me reaching for my back pocket yet. I think I'd like to go variable power, probably something on the order of a 1x-5ish or so, as MichiganScott suggested, although it would be nice to stretch the upper end out to 9ish or so.

 

[Unleashed]

Primary Arms 1-4X Illuminated scope (30mm tube). I have this on one of my AR's. Nice little scope for the money.

 

[Optimus]

Does the 32 mm allow enough sight area? At 3x, how tight is that at 300 yards? I do not understand the reticle BDC Carbine ...?

 

[red dragon]

Trijicon Accupoint tr24 1-4 /vortex viper pst 1-4.i have the accupoint and love it.almost got the vortex.trijicon, vortex and leupold have the best glass vs price value in my opinion.all have great warranties and customer service.also the accupoint 3-9x40 and the viper pst 2.5-10x32 are worth a glance.don't know your price range but i'd plan on 300-600 for something that'll make you happy.

 

[jagular]

Primary arms has a new 2.5x compact scope available now for $250 here https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-Arms-2-5X-Compact-Scope-PAC2-5X-p/pac2.5x.htm

I have their previous 3x compact scope and it's a great optic for the price. Glass is clear and PA stands behind their products.

 

[moe smith]

Primary arms has a new 2.5x compact scope available now for $250 here https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-Arms-2-5X-Compact-Scope-PAC2-5X-p/pac2.5x.htm

I have their previous 3x compact scope and it's a great optic for the price. Glass is clear and PA stands behind their products.

Yes, I've been looking at PA. Frankly I've been looking at just about everything lately, at least online. I may be starting to think you get what you pay for.

I saw this...........


Leupold Optics Mark 4 CQ/T 1-3x14mm (incl. carrying handle mount) - | Leupold Optics

It's a little more than I'd like to spend, though it is variable power, which I want. I only wish it had a little more power at the upper end. Anyway, still looking. I'm going to take my time and get what I think I'll be happy with long term.

Then there's this....................

SWFA SS HD 1-4x24 Tactical 30mm Riflescope

I think I'm favoring that one at this point.

Any opinions?

 

[jagular]

I think you need to determine what you plan to use the red dot or scope for. A fixed power red dot acog is different than and variable power scope. If you want precision go for the scope. If you like the red dot and want the benefits of some magnification go for the acog style or red dot/magnifier route. Do some more research on the benefits of each setup. One limiting factor of scopes is the tube size and sight picture for target acquisition (precision vs reaction).

 

[MichiganScott]

I'm of the opinion that most shooters over glass their rifles. Afterall, a deer at 400 yards viewed through a 12 power scope appears to be the same size as one viewed at 34 yards with the naked eye. If you can't stick a bullet through the heart/lung zone with iron sights at 33 yards, you need a different hobby.

Things may be different if you are shooting bench rest or gophers. On the whole, a 4-12 scope is not more useful than a 1-5.

 

[moe smith]

Trijicon Accupoint tr24 1-4 /vortex viper pst 1-4.i have the accupoint and love it.almost got the vortex.trijicon, vortex and leupold have the best glass vs price value in my opinion.all have great warranties and customer service.also the accupoint 3-9x40 and the viper pst 2.5-10x32 are worth a glance.don't know your price range but i'd plan on 300-600 for something that'll make you happy.

Found this vortex 2.5-10 which seems like a versatile range. This one differs from the one you suggested in that it has a larger objective lens, if I'm not mistaken (44), which should enhance (?) low light performance. Are you familiar with this model?...........

Vortex Optics - Viper HS 2.5-10x44 Dead-Hold BDC

The other question I'd have about this scope regards illumination. I didn't notice any capability for that in the specs. Is that really that important of a feature?

 

[moe smith]

I'm of the opinion that most shooters over glass their rifles. Afterall, a deer at 400 yards viewed through a 12 power scope appears to be the same size as one viewed at 34 yards with the naked eye. If you can't stick a bullet through the heart/lung zone with iron sights at 33 yards, you need a different hobby.

Things may be different if you are shooting bench rest or gophers. On the whole, a 4-12 scope is not more useful than a 1-5.

Which 1-5 would you recommend?

 

[ASTMedic]

Which 1-5 would you recommend?

Have you looked at the PA 1-6? I'm a huge fan of the low power variable scopes. To me its just a matter of what reticle fits your needs. They're quick to pick up the target at 1 power and 6 is plenty out to 400yrds.

Also if you want a fixed optic the PA 2.5x optic looks nice. Some say a reticle like that is too busy, I like them. The reticle is etched so even if your battery dies you still have the reticle there unlike a red dot.

 

[red dragon]

The 2.5-10 i was referring to is the viper pst.if you don't plan on shooting in low low light(early morning or late evening)the viper hs should do the trick.u can always add a trijicon rmr or a fastfire on later for close range and low light shooting.i know ,getting expensive.that's why i leaned towards the viper pst 1-4.to me,my ar's are short to med range weapons.0-300yds.so a good 1-4 with illumination is perfect for my needs.if you like acogs than a 1-4 should suit you.they do make 1-6 power but you'll pay for it.if you can, try and fondle a few at your local shop.i really liked the vortex but after handling both i saved up for the accupoint.remember to save for a good mount.

 

[moe smith]

The 2.5-10 i was referring to is the viper pst.if you don't plan on shooting in low low light(early morning or late evening)the viper hs should do the trick.u can always add a trijicon rmr or a fastfire on later for close range and low light shooting.i know ,getting expensive.that's why i leaned towards the viper pst 1-4.to me,my ar's are short to med range weapons.0-300yds.so a good 1-4 with illumination is perfect for my needs.if you like acogs than a 1-4 should suit you.they do make 1-6 power but you'll pay for it.if you can, try and fondle a few at your local shop.i really liked the vortex but after handling both i saved up for the accupoint.remember to save for a good mount.

Thanks. Wow. The reviews on the PST are impressive. It certainly warrants serious consideration. Are these scopes only available online or are there any major retailers that stock them ? It would be nice to get a feel for the scope up close and personal.

 

[red dragon]

Bass Pro shop off the top of my head.several others around here too,but they're local.check the vortex website for a dealer near you.also vortex will honor its warranty even if you set it on fire and throw it off a cliff.no bs,no questions asked.

 

[MichiganScott]

Which 1-5 would you recommend?

Leupold, Nikon, and Bushnell all make quality lower power variables. Unfortunately, the tactical type scopes with target style knobs and illuminated cross hairs start to get kind of pricey. I believe the new Bushnell Elites are a tremendous buy. However, their customer service is terrible.

The Leupold VX•R Patrol 1.25-4x20mm (30mm) can be purchased for less than $450 and you get access to one of the best customer service departments in the optic business plus a large choice of illuminated reticles.

Price wise you may be better off buying a 2-7 power scope. You have a higher top end without really losing too much on the low end. If you don't need all the bells and whistles like illuminated cross hairs, you can pick up truly terrific buys for less than $250 and decent scopes for less than $200.

 

[moe smith]

I think I'm changing my mind. I'm leaning toward this........

Weaver Tactical 3-15x50mm - Sniper Central

.......in it's illuminated configuration.

Here are my thoughts. If the Russians or Chinese do decide to light one off and invade, I don't want some fragile piece of glass or flip up sight that's liable to get knocked out of whack when the rifle goes sailing across the room from the initial blast.

So I bought a durable carry handle. Doesn't get any simpler than that. I figure for most stuff that sight is pretty darn close, and it's rugged. Then, when I start seeing the parachutes drift down, I can pull out my pre sighted-in Weaver 3-15x50 with a quick detach LaRue Mount that I'll have had wrapped in foam rubber to save it from sudden nuclear blast impacts and slap that baby on so I can shoot out the canisters of their gas masks.

Besides, the 15 at the upper end will also help me see my hits and misses at the range.

All kidding aside, I did put a carry handle on set to the wide aperture for HD stuff. I really didn't care for the flip up and try as I might, I cannot get used to chasing around a dancing red glowing orb. Close in I'm planting the front post on it and lighting it up.

I will drop the scope on the rifle anytime it goes "out". I like the eye relief, side focus, FFP and illumination (!) (which they say helps for an FFP scope at the lower magnifications.)

So far the reviews I've read have been pretty good. Anybody here have one? All I need now is to find a brick and mortar place that carries them to close the sale.

 

[JaPes]

ACOG look. 2X fixed magnification.

Bushnell - 2x MP

I used the 1X version of this on my 15-Sport.