Seating die deforming WC

[6string]

The problem cited by the OP is worth solving in a different way if wadcutters are your primary reloading choice (ie: for target use).

The problem is, most resizing dies made today are a little too tight. The assumption is to accomodate jacketed bullets in higher pressure loads.
If you're deforming the nose of a wadcutter via seating pressure, you can assume you're also swaging down the diameter at least .001-.002". This doesn't help accuracy, or leading issues.
Also, the excessive resizing doesn't help case life either.

I have found Redding carbide dies to be a little gentler in resizing. I can press a hbwc about halfway in place with just finger pressure (gets them in straighter).
Another approach is to try the old fashioned steel dies that are cut with a taper to match that of a "straight walled" cartridge.

Jim

 

[Engineer1911]

Cheap and effective solution

Use a 1/4" x 1-1/4"-20 TPI hex head bolt, chuck the bolt in a drill and turn the head to a round shape that fits inside the seater die. File the top of the head smooth, use a hack saw and cut a screwdriver slot in the threaded end. Install your new seater stem in the seating die with the old lock nut.

This method works on RCBS dies. The new seater stem with seat wadcutters flush, round nose and semi-wadcutters to a consistent length that you set without variance because of nose profile. My 38 special seater die has worked flawlessly with this modification for 35 years on 38 Spl or 357 Mag ammo. I have to disassemble and clean cast bullet lube out of the die every 1.5 K to 2 K rounds.

 

[just plain joe]

You may wish to consider the following: Separate the final step (seating & crimping) into two separate steps. First seat the bullet in the case without any crimp. After you have seated all the bullets, then back out the seating stem and go back and crimp each of the cartridges. This has worked for me in the past.

JM2C

JPJ

 

[trapper9260]

You may wish to consider the following: Separate the final step (seating & crimping) into two separate steps. First seat the bullet in the case without any crimp. After you have seated all the bullets, then back out the seating stem and go back and crimp each of the cartridges. This has worked for me in the past.

JM2C

JPJ

I do the same also, when I was have problems I went doing it in the way you stated and took care of the problem

 

[Al W.]

The problem cited by the OP is worth solving in a different way if wadcutters are your primary reloading choice (ie: for target use).

The problem is, most resizing dies made today are a little too tight. The assumption is to accomodate jacketed bullets in higher pressure loads.
If you're deforming the nose of a wadcutter via seating pressure, you can assume you're also swaging down the diameter at least .001-.002". This doesn't help accuracy, or leading issues.
Also, the excessive resizing doesn't help case life either.

I have found Redding carbide dies to be a little gentler in resizing. I can press a hbwc about halfway in place with just finger pressure (gets them in straighter).
Another approach is to try the old fashioned steel dies that are cut with a taper to match that of a "straight walled" cartridge.

Jim

I got into the game to shoot wadcutters .
The Dillon 550 seems to have left that off the list , so to speak.
Their system seems to preclude some of the solutions for seating this particular projectile.
I should most likely increase the bell on my cartridge a bit.

 

[Al W.]

I do the same also, when I was have problems I went doing it in the way you stated and took care of the problem

The Dillon separates those functions .

 

[Al W.]

Use a 1/4" x 1-1/4"-20 TPI hex head bolt, chuck the bolt in a drill and turn the head to a round shape that fits inside the seater die. File the top of the head smooth, use a hack saw and cut a screwdriver slot in the threaded end. Install your new seater stem in the seating die with the old lock nut.

This method works on RCBS dies. The new seater stem with seat wadcutters flush, round nose and semi-wadcutters to a consistent length that you set without variance because of nose profile. My 38 special seater die has worked flawlessly with this modification for 35 years on 38 Spl or 357 Mag ammo. I have to disassemble and clean cast bullet lube out of the die every 1.5 K to 2 K rounds.

The Dillon is in its own universe. I ordered an after market stem that seems to state that its ideal for seating WC and SWC.
If that works , full speed ahead , if not I'll grind the stem I have and pick up a replacement for those times I load RN.

 

[Engineer1911]

The bolt works

The Dillon is in its own universe. I ordered an after market stem that seems to state that its ideal for seating WC and SWC.
If that works , full speed ahead , if not I'll grind the stem I have and pick up a replacement for those times I load RN.

The bolt or after-market seater stem works with round nose bullets, either cast or jacketed. On cast bullets, it may leave a very small "flat spot" on the tip of the bullet. The over all length will be constant regardless of the nose profile.

 

[trapper9260]

The Dillon separates those functions .

When you do not have Dillon ,you do it all on the same die.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

An equally effective but temporary and easily-reversible method it to insert a small ball of aluminum foil. The first bullet you seat will mold the foil to the bullet nose, and subsequent bullets will not be deformed. If you switch to another bullet style, just pick the foil back out of the die.

I'm grayhaired reloader since the mid 71's but never thought of that.Thanks Pisgah!I'll try it.

 

[Al W.]

Uniquetek not really an improvement over Dillon stem

You can make this a lot of work and still wind up with a less-than-perfect homemade solution or you can buy the proper seating stem. These are very inexpensive.

The aftermarket stem from Uniquetek is not an improvement over the Dillon stem.
FWIW

 

[Forrest r]

The real issue is the Dillon expander, it's designed to have neck tension on the shorter/smaller in diameter jacketed bullets. What you are experiencing is the pressure it takes to swage a soft lead bullet vs the pressure it takes to seat the bullet in the under expanded cases.

A lyman m-die

A factory 9mm expander designed for .355" jacketed bullets vs home made expander designed for .358" cast bullets

Factory 45acp expander vs 45acp lyman m-die: Note the brass ring left on the factory expander/high water mark were the top of the expanded brass ends.

On another website a reloader was having issues with a pardini 32cal target pistol. He was using Dillon factory 32 s&w long dies and trying to load .314" swaged lead wc's for it. After giving him the advice as above he contacted Dillon and they sent him a custom expander for his soft oversized bullets. The larger expander ended all his problems.

Lyman sells m-dies as do other mfg's now. NEO bullet molds sell custom expanders that use a lee universal expander body. Simply screw on your custom expander to the lee die.

 

[Mad_Charlie]

There are "M" type powder funnels available for the Dillon.

As far as a seating die, have you spoken with Dillon?

 

[Al W.]

The real issue is the Dillon expander, it's designed to have neck tension on the shorter/smaller in diameter jacketed bullets. What you are experiencing is the pressure it takes to swage a soft lead bullet vs the pressure it takes to seat the bullet in the under expanded cases.

A lyman m-die

A factory 9mm expander designed for .355" jacketed bullets vs home made expander designed for .358" cast bullets

Factory 45acp expander vs 45acp lyman m-die: Note the brass ring left on the factory expander/high water mark were the top of the expanded brass ends.

On another website a reloader was having issues with a pardini 32cal target pistol. He was using Dillon factory 32 s&w long dies and trying to load .314" swaged lead wc's for it. After giving him the advice as above he contacted Dillon and they sent him a custom expander for his soft oversized bullets. The larger expander ended all his problems.

Lyman sells m-dies as do other mfg's now. NEO bullet molds sell custom expanders that use a lee universal expander body. Simply screw on your custom expander to the lee die.

Hello and thanks for taking the time to run this all down.
I don't see how the Lyman die can help me with the Dillon 550 I own , I'm more likely to solve the difficulty by contacting Dillon as you suggest.
Increasing the bell of the cartridge with the Dillon die doesn't solve the swaging problem with the soft .358 (or more) projectiles. I can get usable rounds using their stock gear but really think that the solution is a tapered case mouth.
The Ransom rest at my club was telling me that my Zero rounds were well made and consistent enough but with either of the stems I have at present , flush mounted rounds for the M52-2 are difficult to produce with the softer projectiles.
Seems like contacting Dillion may be the shortest course to the goal.
UPDATE !
Theres good news and bad news in my update here .
The good news is I already have a Lyman M-die.
The bad news is that I have to mount it in another tool head and create another stage to load these large lead projectiles that my S&W firearms prefer.
So much for convenience !
I talked to a tech at Dillon (Don Thanks!) and he gave me the bad news.
He loads the lead WC too and when he does he has to separate the de priming and sizing steps .
He advised me to get an M die and mount it in a spare tool head and go about it that way.
Makes sense , a bit more cumbersome though .
Hey if reloading was easy everybody would do it!
Good news is I already possess all the necessary components .
They don't produce a first stage die of the correct dimension for lead because no one loads lead anymore as far as Dillon is concerned , I guess. They have no plans to produce a die that will not swage large soft lead WC. The times , they are a changin'.
I'm not willing to settle for combat accuracy , I'm looking for target accuracy.
So .
Now thinking about acquiring a single stage press just for this function.
Mo' Money !

 

[castleadslinger]

Hello and thanks for taking the time to run this all down.
I don't see how the Lyman die can help me with the Dillon 550 I own , I'm more likely to solve the difficulty by contacting Dillon as you suggest.
Increasing the bell of the cartridge with the Dillon die doesn't solve the swaging problem with the soft .358 (or more) projectiles. I can get usable rounds using their stock gear but really think that the solution is a tapered case mouth.
The Ransom rest at my club was telling me that my Zero rounds were well made and consistent enough but with either of the stems I have at present , flush mounted rounds for the M52-2 are difficult to produce with the softer projectiles.
Seems like contacting Dillion may be the shortest course to the goal.
UPDATE !
Theres good news and bad news in my update here .
The good news is I already have a Lyman M-die.
The bad news is that I have to mount it in another tool head and create another stage to load these large lead projectiles that my S&W firearms prefer.
So much for convenience !
I talked to a tech at Dillon (Don Thanks!) and he gave me the bad news.
He loads the lead WC too and when he does he has to separate the de priming and sizing steps .
He advised me to get an M die and mount it in a spare tool head and go about it that way.
Makes sense , a bit more cumbersome though .
Hey if reloading was easy everybody would do it!
Good news is I already possess all the necessary components .
They don't produce a first stage die of the correct dimension for lead because no one loads lead anymore as far as Dillon is concerned , I guess. They have no plans to produce a die that will not swage large soft lead WC. The times , they are a changin'.
I'm not willing to settle for combat accuracy , I'm looking for target accuracy.
So .
Now thinking about acquiring a single stage press just for this function.
Mo' Money !

These M-Die powder funnels will work in a Dillon powder funnel. I use them and would recommend them to anybody. I have three (3) of them and they work rather well. The gent that machines them and sells them on ebay. Is a straight up guy. The fit and finish of these powder funnel will meet your expectation.
Powder Funnel fits Dillon XL 650 RL 550 SL SDB 1050 Powder Measure - PTU | eBay

 

[Al W.]

These M-Die powder funnels will work in a Dillon powder funnel. I use them and would recommend them to anybody. I have three (3) of them and they work rather well. The gent that machines them and sells them on ebay. Is a straight up guy. The fit and finish of these powder funnel will meet your expectation.
Powder Funnel fits Dillon XL 650 RL 550 SL SDB 1050 Powder Measure - PTU | eBay

Yes sir that's exactly what I did , bought the part have run around 3 hundred rounds through it in combination with a Redding Competition seating die and , life is good ! Might invest in a reading crimping die as well. The Redding dies are very good. Worth a try at least ! In combination with the new funnel , lets say I like it .