Selection of "Best Gun"

ray2849

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Messages
28
Reaction score
3
The FBI study did a lot to analyze the best gun for the law enforcement community. They did that by analyzing their needs and then selecting the best gun to meet those needs. But for Conceal Carry applications the “best gun” is a conversation that seems to have a lot of controversy. My experience in managing people for 25 years is that when they cannot agree on the solution it is often because they do not agree on the problem. I thought maybe it would help if we tried to analyze the needs of Conceal Carry similar to what the FBI did for their application. The following is my attempt at a “first pass” at this analysis. I am interested in your concepts for what you think the criteria are for a Conceal Carry gun in various situations. Hopefully this won’t turn into a discussion of what gun but rather what the needs are for various situations
The following is a look at the situations you might encounter and their various needs. I have naturally assumed you would carry the gun but few people I know actually carry extra magazines, etc. so I have not considered that possibility in the following. I also know that selecting a small size gun would be important to many but I think most would agree that size and weight priority comes after some basic needs. After all, if it doesn’t meet the basic need for a situation you might as well not carry it.
The first situation I considered is the mass shootings that, unfortunately, seem to be growing in frequency. I think in these situations the most important need is the capacity for a large number of rounds. Next most important is probably a bullet with as much energy as possible. I suppose, like the FBI study, some penetration capacity would likely be third on the list. I also believe this situation could occur at a slightly too significantly longer range than many conceal carry situations so that needs to be considered. Typical 9mm’s frequently have about a 17 shot capacity and 40 calibers frequently have about 13. However the 40 caliber also has more power. Thus I suppose it is a virtual tie as to whether the 9mm or 40 caliber would be best for this situation although I think I would probably select the 40 caliber. Typically a single action gun has less trigger travel and may require less force so I think that would be desirable to give more accuracy at the extended range this situation may require,
Next I considered the situation of a mugging or carjacking, which I assume is for more prevalent than the previous situation. Here it seems you might frequently recognize a potential situation developing, but cannot draw your gun, because most of the times these turn out to be false alarms. Bullet capacity is always important but in these situations I would put its priority considerably down the list. I believe these situations are mostly close range and I would anticipate that they frequently require a small number of shots. Quick access would seem to be the most important priority so a smooth gun with no points or edges to catch on clothing and a holster allowing you to draw the gun quickly should be a high priority. However, if you cannot draw your gun until your life is threatened, that means you probably have a gun pointing at you before you can start. Getting your gun from a concealed location and shooting someone while they have a gun pointed at you all along would seem highly unlikely, even with ideal equipment. And if you wait until they start to leave, your life is no longer in danger and you would be faulted for pulling a gun at that time. So under these conditions I would think a hammerless revolver might be best. It probably is no better in the summer months but in the spring, winter, and fall you frequently have a jacket where a hammerless revolver could be kept in the packet. Here you could put your hand on it when you saw the situation evolving and remove your hand if it was a false alarm. But if the threat was real you could go so far as to fire from within your jacket pocket. So it seems you have a lot of flexibility here but at least in some months of the year there is a slight preference for a hammerless revolver. I have not owned one but I understand many people think the 357 in this size revolver has to much recoil, so I think this would probably be a 38 Special +P hammerless revolver.
I know we started by discussing Conceal Carry but I thought I would discuss home protection as well. Most people with a Conceal Carry license have shot somewhat frequently but many people that have a gun for home protection rarely shoot their gun. Also, unless you are a professional law enforcement officer, I think if you ever get in a situation where you need your gun at home, you will likely be very nervous. I know I have been in this situation twice and things like safety just aren’t first in your mind. So hopefully the safeties the gun provides will be adequate. But I suspect many people will disengage any safety before starting through their house. I would even guess many people would have their finger on the trigger. So I think for most people a single action gun would be dangerous. Basically it is just waiting for a 4 lb. or less bump of the trigger in the conditions I have speculated above. Keeping in mind it could be your teen age son sneaking back into the house, I think safety in this situation would seem to be extremely important. I also doubt that this situation would likely require a large number of rounds although more is always better if available. Another thing to consider is that in a location with obstacles it may be difficult or undesirable to shoot with two hands on the gun. So a double action automatic could be used if it is not jam prone when shooting with one hand but this situation would seem to give an edge to a revolver since the double action is considerably harder to pull yet not so had as to make you miss an intruder at ten feet and jams of any sort are not an issue. I suppose this could be a 38 Special +P but since it is not necessarily a small gun a typical sized 357 handgun would probably most people’s best choice to meet these conditions.
 
Register to hide this ad
Ray,
First off welcome to the Forum (I see you are fairly new here) and please note, I am NOT a LEO.

As a businessman my EDC has been for many many years a M60-7 2" J Frame loaded with BB 158 +P (HEAVY) LSWCHP's. IMHO this is the best carry package for my lifestyle & dress - remember, everything in life is a compromise. I feel confident that the BB loads will do the job if ever needed and the simplicity and reliability of the J Frame is more important to me than a Hi-cap. Auto Loader that is harder to conceal, less reliable, and more complicated to operate under stress. Years ago I tried carrying larger Auto Loading guns like a 1911 - NOT FOR ME! Too large, heavy cumbersome and I never liked carrying a gun in the C&L condition. Auto's (as good as they are) do jam, misfeed, and FTF on a "dud" once in a while and clearing them is more than I personally want to deal with when I need a firearm. With a Revolver if I encounter a "dud" - just pull the trigger again. IMHO NOTHING beats the revolvers reliability.

To me carrying a gun as a civilian is different than LEO. LEO's are purposely going into harms way, constantly facing a threat from multiple "bad guys" and if in uniform are marked targets. If I were on the job I would want a powerful, high capacity, reliable Auto Loader and back up magazines filled with potent ammo.

As a civilian I don't feel targeted as LEO's are by wearing a uniform, and feel that I would most likely be attacked by one perp. not a "gang" as would a LEO. Again, these are generalizations and bets, we known anything can happen.

At home all hand guns are back up and a Shotgun loaded with Buckshot is my primary HD weapon of choice. I feel that is more effective, holds more rounds, and will get the job done if needed.

There are thousands here that will agree with me and thousand here who think I am wrong, but each individual person here has their own needs, situations, dress, environments, local laws, jobs, budgets and requirements. Ultimately these factors will determine
their individual choice for SD and EDC weapons. I just enjoy sharing my 30+ years of civilian carrying, experience and maybe others might get some pointers from them.

By the way, one of the BEST ways to determine how good something really is, is to see how long that product has been in production. The public will determine if that product floats or sinks
and something that's been relatively unchanged for many years like 1911's, Chief's Specials, etc. has to be a good product.


Regards,
Chief38
 
Ray, do yourself a favor, don't overthink this. There's a lot of info out there like the FBI study you cite. But, as Chief explained, even though they're not uniformed, FBI's law enforcement, so their needs are not necessarily going to be yours or mine. Now, hunker down for an avalanche of "buy/don't buy a fill in the blank" and the inevitable caliber war.
 
I don't subscribe to the magic bullet/magic caliber theory.

Though I love handguns dearly, no handgun/caliber is the ideal self defensive tool; they are all a compromise of sorts.

My advice will always be carry what you shoot they best.


Sir:
No disrespect intended, but the BLUE COLOR you have used in your post is all but impossible to read. Just saying.......

Regards,
Chief38
 
Sir:
No disrespect intended, but the BLUE COLOR you have used in your post is all but impossible to read. Just saying.......

Regards,
Chief38

Not on the good old "light blue" setting. It shows up fine. I don't know how you guys enjoy that dark background. :)
 
I have never thought about being a LEO, but I like mechanical things.

I have found my shooting ability varies widely with the activity.

I can shoot 4" swinging disks at 30 yards off a shooting bench with a 4" 629 very well.

BUT, off hand this old Glock is like magic.

Glock_zps2d7dad4c.jpg


I can not shoot the 629 as well off hand, I can not shoot the Glock as well off a bench.

So, I would never carry the 629, but, that is me.

I still love to shoot the 629. :D

Caliber? That would never be a concern to me. Hittin' is what I aim at is my prime concern.
 
Not on the good old "light blue" setting. It shows up fine. I don't know how you guys enjoy that dark background. :)

Yes, I do use the dark background (thanks for pointing that out) as I find it easier on the eyes. I've been using it so long that I forgot we have an option - but do intend on keeping it.

The only down side is when some of the fella's use the colored writing - oh well I guess there's no pleasing everyone all the time.

Regards,
Chief38
 
My ccw check list-(1)it must feel comfortable in my hand and on my body at all times (2) I must be accurate and proficient with it (3)must be reliable (500rds no malfunctions (4)simplicity and ease of maintenance (5) a S&W logo on the side. (6) triggers,sights and lever placement are typically not that important to me,i'll just practice a little more.I'm a south paw, so adapting to a gun is normal for me.If it meets all the criteria then i'll consider it.as most have already stated, there's no one perfect ccw.people and situations will always differ.you must look at your own needs and situations then decide what's right for you.for me the shield and 642 fill my ccw needs.
 
OP Ray you gave 3 situations in which access to a handgun would be beneficial. I agree with your assessment in situation 2 and 3 but have a different opinion on situation 1. Situation 1 you stated was a mass shooting in which you felt having a high capacity 9mm or 40 cal would be best. By mass shooting, I take it you mean a situation such as the tragic Colorado movie theater massacre for example. It seems that this type of shooting is most often carried out by a lone gunman (often intent on suicide but for some reason, intending to produce the greatest possible evil.) I have often thought if just one person in that theater had been armed the body count would have been much less horrific. My belief is a J frame revolver would be a good choice and don't really see the need for a high capacity auto. As others stated above the jams, ftf, accidental release of magazines and confusion about safeties often seen with autos, vs. the ease and reliability of simply pulling the trigger to fire has convinced me that revolvers are the best choice for self defense.
 
When I was researching for a concealed carry gun, I had certain parameters in mind. It had to be dependable, lightweight, small enough for a pocket, in a caliber used at one time by either the military or police and lots of fun to shoot at the range. It came down to either a 442 or a 642. It just happened that someone at work had a used 442 that they shot once, cleaned and put in a drawer.
I bought it from them, did a detail clean and while I had it apart, did a trigger job with a spring change, got some Pachmayr compact grips and a Laserlyte side mounted laser.
I made a few holsters and now it's my constant companion, either in my pocket or riding on my right hip loaded with 110 grain Federal Hydra-shoks, with a couple of loaded quick strips in my left front pocket.
 
First off, the FBI put a lot of effort into the ideal LE handgun for their agents, the 10mm. Today, they issue run-of-mill Glocks in .40. So much for that. As an instructor fir one if the three-letters, my idea of an ideal handgun is one that someone can shoot accurately enough to qualify with, without requiring a lot of remedial instruction on a cold miserable day. Size, shape, and caliber are not important as long as the shooter can handle his/her pistol in a competent manner. The first order of business in concealed carry is a pistol that you can both shoot accurately and conceal properly. If your concealment environment makes a 5-shot revolver or a 380 the only viable option, then you must force yourself to become competent with that hardware. There is no "one gun to fit all" on the market.
 
Agreed, walkin trails. I train some guys & gals that "just have to have" a 45 because they think it's the ultimate stopper. But they struggle at the range due to the grip size, recoil, etc. We're fortunate enough we can choose from a 9, 40 or 45 in a compact or full size; so if they are honest with themselves they can carry the gun they truly shoot the best.
It ain't the bullet, it's location, location, location!

Sent from somewhere between the Ohio territory and the forbidden zone.
 
Simply put, the weapon you choose will not be the same as a duty weapon. Most likely it will be smaller, lighter, and hold fewer rounds.
It should fit your hand, be reliable and allow you to make quick accurate shots on targets on demand.
My advice, get out there and try a bunch of em! My own two favorites of late are S&Ws a model 60 and 64 snub .38s. Quick, accurate, and simple.
The only 2 semi-autos I carry are a S&W 5906 and HK P7, both 9mm.
Keep it simple, practical, and something you like too shoot.
Dale
 
Methinks that overthinking leads to a lot of bad assumptions.

The statement 'here you wouldn't need a lot of rounds' is a dangerous assumption for sure.

We just had a post where a cop (yes they get awful dang nervous when being shot at too!!) put 14 fatal bullets into a bad guy, and the bad guy kept shooting.

How many rounds do you think you should carry??? :confused:

.
 
I am not, havent been or will be a leo. I did carry on my jobs for over 35 years as a armed guard and have been retired for the last 14 years. I have the permit and own many handguns. I carry the worst of them. A old s&w model 40. Its small, 38 special and can be packed in my front pocket. If I didnt own it I probley wouldnt pack near as much as what little I do pack. And I do have many more and better weapons. If for some reason I lost every one I own, my first gun would be a lightweight version of the same model 40. Even my little model 40 weighs more than I really like to pack in my pocket. I live in peaceful utah, not downtown detroit or oakland. I dont need to walk around with a primary, secondary, and have my wife covering my back.
Where do you guys live that you are that concerned?
 
Well, at work I carry a Glock 21 (14 x .45 ACP), two spare mags on me, a few extras in the truck, a Glock 27 ankle gun (10 x .40 S&W) is often strapped on, and an M-4 with four 30 round mags is in the truck.

Off-duty it is usually the Glock 21 with a spare mag. Wife is LE too, and she sports a Glock 17 with a spare mag off-duty. Love is being able to clear your house together!
 
I have small hands fro a male, a curse from Mom.

But this is what I have come up with. I can only shoot M&P FS with small grip back, M&P Shield and 1911's.

I tried many version of firearms and these seems to be the best fit, that's what counts. Cause no matter how powerful the gun is, if you cant handle it then it is worthless and a danger to you.


  1. M&P 9MM Shield for carry, very nice shooting gun
  2. M&P .22 LR for the range
  3. Springfield 1911 A1 Mil-Spec no upgrades for Range and Home
    defense w/2 ea Wilson 8rd mags. Planning on buying Chip Mc Corminck 10 rd mags.
Thought about buying a .45 M&P (very nice gun), but got spoil when I shot the 1911
 
Last edited:
Back
Top