Sent my Performance Center model 41 back to S & W….

[AzShooter]

Yes, Smith will take care of it. rolandj is correct. Speak to a supervisor. It always helps. And if the supervisor doesn't satisfy you speak to their supervisor. Everyone has a boss.

Just be firm but be polite.

 

[Walter Rego]

I would only accept a new barrel or a new gun. Period. End of story.

 

[Imissedagain]

Hopefully you used a credit card and can let them know that the product is defective, even after it was supposedly fixed, and start a claim or whatever the procedure involves.
Do that and then notify the LGS and Smith.
Not sure how small claims court works interstate.

Your time is a terrible thing to waste due to their problems.
Don't give up.

Buy a Ruger MKIV, all stainless, and drop in a better trigger.

 

[Walter Rego]

As a postscript to my advice above, I know a lot of people have said shoot it and if the accuracy is acceptable, don't worry about it.

But the imperfections still are not normal and would bug me. Just think if you wanted to sell it down the road ? You are going to tell a prospective buyer who looks down the bore "well, yeah, but it shoots great". That buyer is either going to pass, or want to buy it at a fire sale price.

 

[PAgunman]

Yes, I agree with you completely, Walter Rego. I have not sent the gun in yet to Smith & Wesson. Went to the range a few days ago and i shot about 60–65 rounds through it……about 35 rounds by me and about 30 rounds by my buddy. Same ammo from the same boxes that I used in the past. Believe it or not, the gun shot almost flawlessly—only had 1 stove pipe. It was nearly perfect! No jams, no FTF, no failures to fire! I couldn’t believe it! I did not open any new ammo boxes; just used the ammo that I have been using from just recent range trips. What happened? Can’t explain it. Nothing has changed except the gun’s performance! I am planning another range trip soon.

 

[PAgunman]

Maybe it was the ghosts of Christmas past, present and future that “changed the gun’s attitude”?! I really do not know what contributed to the gun’s great performance. I bought a Volquartsen extractor and new recoil springs but have not done any work/changes to the gun. I plan on going soon again——I’ll see what happens.

 

[PAgunman]

Also, no new magazines were used. Nothing new or different was tried.

 

[Drm50]

I have been saying the new stuff doesn’t measure up to the old for at least 30yrs. There are cheerleaders for MIM, investment castings and polymers.
They have their place but are not machines and fitted parts. Anyone who says otherwise is peeing on your back and telling you it’s raining.
The new stuff has no class or character. Young guys don’t know any better, they don’t know what a good gun is. A M16 was engineered to use new hi tech casting and materials. These other guns are being retro engineered to make use of new materials and tech. They are not going to be the same period.
Ruger is bringing out the Marlin line. I have no doubt Ruger will do a much better job than Remington did. In the end it’s not the same gun as a JM Marlin. It will be the same looking and same basic design.
In this country, I don’t care what it is, it seems like it isn’t desirable until production is ceased. On flip side there are many things that were second rate when produced. The major American gun companies folded because of
Production costs. There was still a market for their products but they cold no longer sell at price point to survive.
Foreign pump shotguns for $129-$150 MSRP? That’s why no American Co makes single barrel shotguns anymore.

 

[Rick H.]

PAgunman: Clear something up for me. Did you, or did you NOT send the pistol back to Smith and Wesson? In one post it sounds like you did and then in another later post you said you did not. I am confused. You also stated you have purchased some parts for the pistol like a VQ extractor, but you haven't installed them. If you are trying to get the pistol fixed why haven't you installed these items? Installing the extractor is no big deal at all. In one post you say the pistol worked really well with no changes and later you claim it did not. What gives? If the pistol is not performing up to your expectations send it in to Smith and Wesson and give them an honest chance to repair it. That's why you have warranty on a new pistol....

Rick H.

 

[PAgunman]

Hello Rick H.
I did not send the model 41 back a second time. I was going to do it but had reservations…..6-8 week wait time, I can’t contact anyone at S & W now because they are closed til January 3rd, there will be a backlog of guns to fix because of not enough help due to COVID and other ridiculous excuses they’ll tell you because of their ineptitude, etc., etc., etc. And they very likely still won’t change the bore because “it costs too much”. So I decided to buy the extractor and recoil springs and try to fix the gun myself. Well when I went to the range, the gun fired flawlessly as I have described in my most recent post. Why? I have no idea. So I did nothing to the gun to get it to fire so well. Yes, the gun is under warranty and I paid too much for it (NEVER AGAIN!) but sending it back a second time and waiting 6-8 weeks (maybe longer) is something I did not want to do. It would be one thing if someone would contact you from the S & W factory to at least provide reasonable customer service and notify you about the overpriced gun that you bought and the repairs needed and even get your input. But it is a guessing game as to what the hell they are doing, how long it will take, will they find the same problems and will they consider your solution(s). Basically, you buy an expensive PC gun (that is supposed to be their best quality, especially since it was originally made in 1957 and they have had plenty of time to work out the problems with its design) and you can’t get your money back readily, you got to send it in and wait 6-8 weeks or longer to get it back, and you don’t know if they’ll fix it correctly a second time! There you have it. American gun manufacturing at its finest!

 

[PAgunman]

Have also heard that quality control has slipped at S & W factory because their workers don’t care as much……factory is moving to Tennessee and many workers will lose their jobs so they are disenchanted. Ruger has also had their issues with some of their guns. My point: gun manufacturing should be an art, something to be proud of….not assembly line widget production. Every gun should not leave the factory until rigorously inspected! Like a Rolls Royce!

 

[PAgunman]

And yes, paying $1600 for a 22LR model 41 PC is like paying for a Rolls Royce!

 

[Oldsalt66]

The M41 has always been somewhat of a "picky eater" however some of the new ones are a bit more finicky.

On the older vintage M41's, the standard moves are to:

1) go to CCI std. vel. ammo - I saw you did that already
2) change the extractor to a Volquartsen ($15 bucks).

As far as the new ones are concerned, if it's under the warranty which your is, let them fix it! If they have a few attempts at it and it still doesn't work properly then I'd demand my money back. You can then by a vintage model 41 or a vintage Model High Standard (still plenty available) for less than you paid for yours.

It's a shame you need to deal with this on a Factory new gun that is $1,600 bucks! Hope they resolve the issue for you - let us know.

PS: Has anyone else noticed the trend in PC guns being problematic? I have seen quite a few posts about them lately.

The Performance Center is no longer what it used to be unfortunately.

Rather than producing firearms built individually by master gunsmiths, it’s now a label for production line guns with some mostly cosmetic “features”.

For example:

 

[LVSteve]

The Performance Center is no longer what it used to be unfortunately.

Rather than producing firearms built individually by master gunsmiths, it’s now a label for production line guns with some mostly cosmetic “features”.

For example:

I think I'll get one of those when I retire and become a bordello security guard in Nye County.

 

[PAgunman]

Hahahaha! Gotta get the shades as well!

 

[Rick H.]

Hello Rick H.
I did not send the model 41 back a second time. I was going to do it but had reservations…..6-8 week wait time, I can’t contact anyone at S & W now because they are closed til January 3rd, there will be a backlog of guns to fix because of not enough help due to COVID and other ridiculous excuses they’ll tell you because of their ineptitude, etc., etc., etc. And they very likely still won’t change the bore because “it costs too much”. So I decided to buy the extractor and recoil springs and try to fix the gun myself. Well when I went to the range, the gun fired flawlessly as I have described in my most recent post. Why? I have no idea. So I did nothing to the gun to get it to fire so well. Yes, the gun is under warranty and I paid too much for it (NEVER AGAIN!) but sending it back a second time and waiting 6-8 weeks (maybe longer) is something I did not want to do. It would be one thing if someone would contact you from the S & W factory to at least provide reasonable customer service and notify you about the overpriced gun that you bought and the repairs needed and even get your input. But it is a guessing game as to what the hell they are doing, how long it will take, will they find the same problems and will they consider your solution(s). Basically, you buy an expensive PC gun (that is supposed to be their best quality, especially since it was originally made in 1957 and they have had plenty of time to work out the problems with its design) and you can’t get your money back readily, you got to send it in and wait 6-8 weeks or longer to get it back, and you don’t know if they’ll fix it correctly a second time! There you have it. American gun manufacturing at its finest!

Thanks for the detailed reply PAgunman. I more than completely understand your frustration with the situation you have. I guess perhaps I am more persistent than some and would still send the gun back if it is not to your liking. There is a lot of truth to the squeaky wheel theory. I would up the ante a bit though if I did so by asking for names, supervisors etc. and a direct communication with whoever works on the pistol. Sometimes I think many companies just pay lip service the first go around with a customer and do as little as possible to see if you will go away. Don't go away! Be polite but be demanding at the same time.

Firearms are a strange item because of the various laws that pertain to them and the record keeping required. It is not easy to simply "replace" a defective firearm because of this. It can be done by a manufacturer, but it is not generally done. Perhaps your state has a lemon law statute that this could fall under and it may be worth your time to check this avenue out also. Where I live the lemon law is a "3 strikes and out" kind of situation. The problem with going this route is the time involved is lengthy and the paper trail is too. Also anything gun related isn't necessarily important to many legal people the same way a car or refrigerator is. Guns are bad so why worry about someone having trouble with one?

Anyway, keep us posted on how your 41 is working out for you as you shoot it more. Hopefully it will do well and this will be a nothing but a bump in the road, but for me a 6 to 8 week repair wait would be worth it just to be a burr under their saddle. You spent your money on their product now it's their turn to earn it.

Rick H.

 

[Larks]

I know the question is now likely redundant, but yes S&W do replace faulty barrels - at least they replaced my barrel on my Mod41. When new it was causing rounds to keyhole on the target and I identified that the barrel had a bulge in it (when pushing a cleaning patch down it I could it free up for about 15mm and then tighten up again). The Australian supplier sent me a loan barrel while they assessed mine and they eventually agreed with me and sent me a new barrel.

On the issue of the gun playing up again after it was “repaired” by S&W, I’m finding similar haphazard failures and I’ve now been putting it down to variations in ammunition quality with CCI rather than the gun......other than the gun being too annoyingly finickity to cope with the variations in the ammo.

At the moment I still use CCI standard in my 41 (after having tried just about every .22 ammo type available in Australia early on and not finding one that does any better) but I have found that there can be quite a bit of difference between batches. I can go through a 1000 round brick with minimum failures and then on the next brick it’s back to square 1 and a higher number of failures to eject.

I think that once I have finished my current stock of CCI I will go back and redo all of my early ammo testing.

Since I first did the ammo testing (about 7 years ago) I have fitted an after market Volquartsen extractor but, to be perfectly honest, I don’t think that it has made much difference at all.

What has made a difference was carefully polishing the breech with a fine metal polish and cleaning it carefully after each shoot - ie with solvent, nylon brushes and patches.

I don't use a bore snake as I’ve found they don’t do as good a job and anything that is still on the snake scrapes off at the breech end as you pull it through.

 

[stev a]

S&W Model 41 Performance went back for repair after 3 range sessions

I also purchased a new Model 41 Performance and had problems with it. After 3 range sessions, the slide would not field strip from the frame and when I finally got it off, it would not go back on. So easy to disassemble and reassemble until it wouldn't! This is unacceptable on a $1600 gun in 2022. Also purchased a new S&W Victory 2-3 months ago and had nothing but ftf and stove pipes out of the box. They did not align the ejector and it would have gone back as well but I learned they have a well known issue with their ejector and moving it 1-2 millimeters in towards the middle fixes this issue. It did with mine. HOW IN 2022 CAN S&W HAVE SUCH TERRIBLE QUALITY CONTROL? I have 3 other S&W pistols, never again will I purchase a S&W after two problems in a row with their new guns! I wrote to their corp office with no response, that shows a total and deliberate indifference to their long term customer's issues!!!

 

[H Richard]

One of my shooting buddies has a $3600 Hammerli, and he does put 1 drop of oil on the top round of every magazine. It shoots fine. If he doesn't he will experience some misfeeds at times.

It isn't all just S&W. The most reliable .22 target pistol I have ever had is my current IZH35M that I have been shooting since 2001. I shoot only standard velocity either CCI or Aguila. I have yet to have a misfeed. The gun has probably 60,000 rounds through it, and still going strong and will still consistently hold the X ring (when I use sandbags to shoot it).