Serious question.... How do you train a dog to stay out of the road?

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Hillbilly77

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Hey gang,

I thought I'd try to tap into the extensive dog knowledge here.
Like the title says - How do you train a dog to stay out of the road?

We can't afford an electric fence type barrier, and a fenced-in area is not an option.

Our puppy (1 1/2 yrs old) can't get it through his thick head to stay out of the road.
The good news is that he is smart and a fast learner - he has learned several tricks with very minimal training. He picks up things pretty quick, so I'm hoping that "stay away from the road" will penetrate his thick skull. :p :cool:

Does anybody have any suggestions for training methods?

We like the big knucklehead, and don't want anything bad to happen to him.

Thanks for any help. :cool: :cool:
 
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I'm not an expert, but I do not think it is a trainable trait. Dogs will follow the line of least resistance when traveling from point a to point b. Restraint is your best option. Barring restrain, it would probably be done like snake proofing. Strap on a shock collar and lead the dog close to the snake (road) when the dog gets too close hit them hard with a full power shock. I've witnessed de-snaking clinics, and the dogs did not have fun but they would not get close to snakes when it was done.
 
Our mailbox is across the road so we've always walked our dogs down to get the mail with us. We stop about 5 feet from the edge of the road and command them to sit. If they disobey they get a firm "NO" and receive corporal punishment. Usually takes but about a week or two and our dogs never go in the road.

I'm thinking a 1 1/2 year old dog is no longer a puppy. :)
 
The electric fence would have been the correct answer, but you've ruled that out. Is there anyone in your area that trains bird dogs? They usually have a remote controlled shock collar. If you could find one and borrow it for a week or two, your pup would want nothing to do with the road after a few jolts and the right commands.
 
I disagree. I once trained a dog to avoid hard surfaces when off the leash. He was only allowed on the grass. He wouldn't cross the driveway to get to the side yard. He would stay on the grass and go around the house, to get to the side yard.

With patience, you can train a dog to do what you want.
 
Shock collars aren't as magical as some guys would have you believe. The idea that you can simply take him near the road and "hit" him a few times sounds fantastic and I agree it would be, but unfortunately it just don't work that way. My advice is first off do not buy a shock collar expecting this to play out...it wont. I have owned some pretty valuable coon hounds and tried everything. About the best I did was tie them on the shoulder and give them a tap with the collar every time a car went by. It worked for some dogs some of the time is about the best I can say. The problem is that if the dog just happens around the road it might make him think about getting away from it but if he has a reason to cross it probably wont do much good. If you seriously like this dog and want him to live then you need to get over the idea that you cannot have a fence or wireless unit.
 
Faulkner said:
Our mailbox is across the road so we've always walked our dogs down to get the mail with us. We stop about 5 feet from the edge of the road and command them to sit. If they disobey they get a firm "NO" and receive corporal punishment. Usually takes but about a week or two and our dogs never go in the road.

I'm thinking a 1 1/2 year old dog is no longer a puppy. :)
Click to expand...

I like this plan. It takes a lot of personal attention to train a "puppy." He just has to be trained that the road is off limits with commands and rewards. Every day for as long as it takes.
 
msinc has it right in my opinion. I have not trained a lot of dogs but I have been around a lot of animals. Dogs, cats, and horses are just like people. They all have different personalities. And like some people, some dogs are never going to learn or will get themselves in trouble no matter how well trained.

And I would never trust an electric fence, or electric/invisible barrier. Electricity and things electric can fail.

I would fence the dog, either letting him have the run of the whole fenced property or a smaller enclosure. Attempting the shock collar routine might give a little insurance that the dog MAY not go into the road but...you never trust dogs, horses, or young kids.
 
The other answer might be a kennel of some sort-- or, as in the old days-- a stick about 2" thick and 2' long-- I have never approved of this method, but it works. Never used it myself-- :( Same with car chasing.
 
Fence.....a real one or the hidden one, but something...

You can train them, or someone else can train them. An expert can tell you the dog has been trained to 'never' do what this or that and always obey.
But a dog is a dog, just like people are people. If they have a lapse of self control or figure they can wander a bit and get a way with it,,they'll do it.
Curiosity and their own natural instincts to chase other animals and sounds (they are predators) just puts them at risk for jumping the limits you put down for them when you're not around to enforce them.
It only takes one more time to get them injured or killed.

If I can nickle for everytime I've been charged by a loose dog when walking, followed by the owner w/leash in hand yelling at the dog and saying something like he NEVER runs away like this,,EVER.
They just can't help themselves at times.
 
If you figure it out let us all know. Scares me silly just thinking about that dumb dog of mine getting out on the highway.
 
I doubt you can train a dog to avoid the street. The idea is good but 'training'a dog to avoid pavement is making a dog 'scared' of pavement. You will undoubtably get unexpected results.

Dogs are place oriented. They remember experiences and places. They can't however extrapolate data like we do. You can make a dog afraid of pavement but you also may make them afraid of just the patch of pavement; ie, they may be afraid of a certain spot not neccessarily all pavement. Example, a friend gun trained his dog using a starters pistol and treats. Everytime he fired he called the dog to him and gave his dog a treat. The first bird he shot at the dog immediately ran to him and sat. Another example, a dog was creeping on point and the owner zapped the dog to stop him. The dog stopped hunting birds because the birds kept shocking him. Unintended consequences.

A shock collar is a tool like a hammer. Its useful if used for intended purposes. But it could wreck havoc if not. Imagine giving a hammer to a three year old in a house filled with valuables. You may think you know how to use it but if you've never used one before you are more like the three year old. Personally, I use the shock collar as a reinforcement tool. I put it on my dog if I need instant obedience and only for recall command. Other then that its the leash. How many times I've actually had to use it? Perhaps, a couple of times a year when she was young and head strong. The last time I had to use it was probably 2-3 years ago.

The collar weight alone is enough to make her obey. The beep is a warning the shock is comming next. Then a vibration will know I mean business. Then if she's being real stubborn the stimulation gradually increases.

I'm just saying be very careful if you go the collar route.
 
The dog I trained to avoid pavement was trained to avoid it only when off the leash. When I walked him, I walked him across the driveway and on the street. There was no problem in his mind with the difference.

I don't know how to tell you how to do that, because you can't learn dog-training online or by reading a book.

I can tell you that I most always used positive-reinforcement while training dogs. I never hit them, and I never gave them treats. I just would say positive things and give them some human contact. If you find a dog really likes to have his back or belly scratched, do that. A lot of times it's the ears. Scratch and massage around the ears and they'll keep doing what you ask. You see, dogs usually want to work. They live to make you happy. If making you happy means stay out of the street, they'll do it. You have to positively-reinforce the behavior you want and expect, and make sure that you negatively-reinforce the behavior you don't want. That can be as simple as using a strong voice (and demeanor) and saying "NO!".

I once had a dog who would bite people. I tried a lot of things to train that out of him, until I found one that worked. I bit him back. It seemed like the right thing to do at the time, and he "got" it. He never bit again. Unorthodox - maybe - but it worked.

You can train a dog with a stick or a rolled-up newspaper (beat the poor thing into submission) but what you end up with is a dog who obeys you because he fears you, not because he respects and loves you. The dog who fears you can also only be trained to do a few things, well.

There is no limit to what you can train a dog to do if he respects and loves you, but you have to respect him too!

I realize that I use "him" a lot when I refers to dogs, but the dog I have now is a female. Females are often easier to train, I have noticed. After they have puppies however, that goes out the window.

Once you train a dog just how you want (especially hunting dogs) and he/she starts getting old, get a new puppy. That old dog will help train the new one for you!
 
when I walked my dog

My dog was very smart so she was easy to train. When walking her I would make like I was going to cross the road and I would vehemently scold her and bring her back to the spot she started, having her sit and not go into the road until I told her to come. Of course if she did the right thing I praised her profusely. I never walked across a road w/o stopping a making sure I had her attention before we crossed. I gave her reminder 'tests' every once in a while to make sure she remembered her lesson. She did very well and died of old age.

Story: When I'd go across the street to get the mail, she would come to the edge of the road and sit and wait for me to come back across.

We lost a dog in the road and it broke my wife's heart (didn't do much for me either)


I need to get the energy to repeat that with our two present Lab dogs who are more 'excitable' and active.
 
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Dog can be trained to a certain point but what happens when it sees a squirrel, rabbit or cat across the street?

I suppose it depends on the dog, but Pugsters' brain completely short-circuits when she sees a squirrel or rabbit. There is no command or anything she will obey. It's like she is deaf... 100% focused. Pugsters will sneak up as close as she can... slow motion step by step... sometimes staying motionless for a minute between steps.... until they make a move then she'll break and there is nothing on Earth that will stop her until that squirrel gets to a tree or the rabbit reaches a hedge... otherwise would chase until dead from exhaustion. Before Pugsters was a year old she caught a rabbit. I think it must be like heroin for her.

Had a neighbor who tried the electric fence with his two dogs. Worked real well until they saw a critter. It was funny to watch. The dogs would actually look at each other like "this is going to hurt" then kinda get set like a runner at a the start line... and go. No stopping them.

Good luck
 
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ChattanoogaPhil said:
...The dogs would actually look at each other like "this is going to hurt" then kinda get set like a runner at a the start line... and go. No stopping them...
Click to expand...

This made me guffaw. :)

The squirrel/rabbit thing is hard to get through. It's instinct with a lot of dog breeds. I trained it out of mine by just letting her chase them on our property. That is exceedingly tough to do, though. Last year, she got the rear end of a squirrel, before it got to the tree and was gone. That guy lost half his tail, and you're right about the heroin analogy.
 
I trained my Lab to stay out of the street by getting a 30' leash and then throwing her ball across the lawn so that it would roll into the street. She would chase the ball, but when see reached the curb I would give the leash a pretty strong yank and yell "No'. Believe it or not it only took doing this 3 times and from then on she would avoid going into any street, not just the one in front of our house. I also trained her to "Come" whenever I blew a whistle, and that by itself saved her from chasing after a pair of Coyotes that wanted her for lunch.

 
Can't be done. My little feist, Jackson, would completely ignore everything I did to keep him out of the street. He was easily trained on everything else, and very obedient in every other way. One day he ran under a moving Toyota and was rolled around pretty good before he finally rolled out, un hurt, from the side. He came out biting and attacking the car as if it was alive. From that point on, he will not go near a moving vehicle, he was finally trained and earned himself a middle initial, Jackson T. (Toyota).
 
Ok. My background is more than 30 years in obedience and field training labradors.

Here's my abridged edition on this issue, and on some of the input so far...

Things that don't, or won't work for long....

  1. Punishment. Not that there's never a time for negative reinforcement, but 99.99% of the time is unnecessary, and an "easy way out" for the "trainer."
  2. Expecting your dog to be outside, unattended for a long stretch of time and staying in the yard or out of the street is going to be a hopeless effort. They might get it at first, but will get lazy or push the envelope when you're not around. [See 3]
  3. Electronic fences are good if the trainer does his job. As Phil said, once a dog learns what it takes to get through them, you've lost the usefulness. Dogs will always, always take the path of least resistance to their perceived desire.
  4. I have used a shock collar one time, with one dog, for one "zap." In this case is was to reinforce a "down-stay" command at 200 yards. The dog was required to be there for 7 minutes without further input from me, and just wouldn't get it. I put the collar on him, gave him one spark at the lowest setting when he tried to get up, and he finally got it. That collar is gathering dust in the garage now.
What works...and yep, it's not "easy."

  1. A fence is good if you don't want to spend the time training.
  2. An electric fence is good, if you can see your way clear to paying for it, and recognize that the bulk of the training happens in the first two weeks. Most dogs trained to buried fences don't cross the line later, even if they're not wearing the collar. But, again, remember Phil's comment...once they learn that they can get through, you're in trouble!
  3. Positive reinforcement training. The BEST way. What you want is not just to train your dog to stay out of the street. Everything you want hinges on one command...COME! If you let your dog outside, and have gone through the training and know, just know that your dog will come when called, you've won the battle.
This is not bragging, and anyone who's ever competed a dog in AKC "Utility Dog" events knows that I'm not talking about an impossible nirvana of trained dogs.

I know for a fact that I can call my dogs away from running squirrels, rabbits, other dogs, kids, cars people, and even locations I don't want them in. And for even Novice levels of AKC obedience, this is expected from the dogs!

My best solution for you is to get into at least a novice class that teaches positive reinforcement training. You'll then get an obedient, happy dog. And it'll be a rewarding experience for you, too. And no, 18 months is definitely not too old to train.

You don't really want a dog who only stays out of the street...you want a dog who knows what to do when you command it, including coming when called. And the neat byproduct of consistently calling the dog away from the street is that sooner or later, he just gets it, and won't bother going near it anymore.

Good luck, and hope this helped!


Len
 
Had a guy I worked with who had a Jack Russell. He had a electric collar but said when the dog saw something and chased after it, he went right through the wire with a little yelp. Problem was that when he was done he could not get back in going at a slow rate of speed so once on the other side.
 
You don't train a dog to stay out of the road; you either put him behind a fence or on a leash.

You can't because no matter how much you train him he's never going to understand the why of staying out of the road and the day is going to come when he runs right out in front of a car.
 
Hillbilly77 said:
We can't afford an electric fence type barrier, and a fenced-in area is not an option.
Click to expand...

If the dog is allowed to roam unrestrained and unsupervised, there will always be a possibility of him ending up in the road, under the wheels of a car. Set aside enough cash to cover the cost of a vet bill for a major injury, or the purchase of a replacement dog.
 
"Training" any pet requires HOURS and HOURS of involvement by the trainer.

Being persistent and FIRM works every time.
 
Faulkner said:
Our mailbox is across the road so we've always walked our dogs down to get the mail with us. We stop about 5 feet from the edge of the road and command them to sit. If they disobey they get a firm "NO" and receive corporal punishment. Usually takes but about a week or two and our dogs never go in the road.

I'm thinking a 1 1/2 year old dog is no longer a puppy. :)
Click to expand...

I believe your suggestion is the best. The dog can indeed be trained to not leave your property which includes the road. I once trained two Dobermans to not cross an imaginary line between ours and the neighbors property. They would both approach the line off leash and then stop dead in their tracks and turn around. So, saying it can't be done isn't totally correct.

Start by taking the dog with you often on a leash and when you get to within whatever distance you will allow the dog from the road, teach it to sit and stay. Start rewarding it and it will soon get that part down pat. Also, start to teach it not to follow you once you go beyond your set limits. Once this is accomplished, start the same training off leash. You will be surprised what they will do IF they know a reward (food of some sort) will be waiting. It may frustrate you at times but be persistent and don't give up because all dogs, no matter what their age, can be taught. Good luck!
 
Smoke said:
You don't train a dog to stay out of the road; you either put him behind a fence or on a leash.

You can't because no matter how much you train him he's never going to understand the why of staying out of the road and the day is going to come when he runs right out in front of a car.
Click to expand...

Sorry but I have to really disagree with that advice. A dog doesn't have to "understand the why" - none do. A dog doesn't know why it is being marched around a show ring but they will do and act as they have been taught through training. This was all proven by Pavlov. Below is a quote from an article on his experiments.

"The Development of Classical Conditioning Theory

Based on his observations, Pavlov suggested that the salivation was a learned response. The dogs were responding to the sight of the research assistants' white lab coats, which the animals had come to associate with the presentation of food. Unlike the salivary response to the presentation of food, which is an unconditioned reflex, salivating to the expectation of food is a conditioned reflex.

Pavlov then focused on investigating exactly how these conditioned responses are learned or acquired. In a series of experiments, Pavlov set out to provoke a conditioned response to a previously neutral stimulus. He opted to use food as the unconditioned stimulus, or the stimulus that evokes a response naturally and automatically. The sound of a metronome was chosen to be the neutral stimulus. The dogs would first be exposed to the sound of the ticking metronome, and then the food was immediately presented.

After several conditioning trials, Pavlov noted that the dogs began to salivate after hearing the metronome. "A stimulus which was neutral in and of itself had been superimposed upon the action of the inborn alimentary reflex," Pavlov wrote of the results. "We observed that, after several repetitions of the combined stimulation, the sounds of the metronome had acquired the property of stimulating salivary secretion." In other words, the previously neutral stimulus (the metronome) had become what is known as a conditioned stimulus that then provoked a conditioned response (salivation)."

 
Barrier and restraint are your friends. I simply do not trust the ability that most of us (myself included) to reliably train something like that in a manner that will keep all the various stimuli from working.

Our dogs are not out very long at a time, unless we are with them, and the yards are fenced anyway. I don't want them to be harassed by pedestrians (which I have seen happen to others' dogs, destroying their temperament); Bozo at least will go bananas at seeing someone because of his Fila blood, and attract a lot of negative attention, etc. I am not a fan of electric fence, and have heard of the same syndrome with motivated dogs getting out, but not getting back in. In addition, the electric fence will not keep out unwelcome intruders, animal and human, and I want them kept out.

The odds of complete success in what you desire are modest, the cost of being wrong catastrophic. Don't do it.
 
PA Reb said:
Sorry but I have to really disagree with that advice. A dog doesn't have to "understand the why" - none do. A dog doesn't know why it is being marched around a show ring but they will do and act as they have been taught through training.
Click to expand...


Until they receive a stimulus that overrides their training.

Let me say it a different way, the dog doesn't understand the danger of crossing the road and they will never understand the danger no matter how much you train them.

So when the dog is out playing in the yard and sees a squirrel or whatever run across the road it doesn't stop and think "I might get killed crossing this road." It just reacts to the stimulus and chases the squirrel. Sooner or later that ends poorly for the dog.

If I let my dog run loose near a street I'm betting his life on my abilities as a trainer, I'd rather restrain him and make it a nonissue.
 
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