Shield 40 Mishap

It's hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like the case failed at the rim.

While this is possible, it is very unlikely. The primer is not in front of the striker until the rear of the chamber is against the breech face. At that point the case is fully supported.

To me it looks like the slide froze up as it tried to move back.

Of course I wasn't there.

I'm glad you're OK and hopefully have learned from this. I'm curious to hear what S&W's conclusions are.

Yea it froze up alright cause both sides of the gun swelled out and the case is blew apart but still attached together by a small piece of case. It had enough power to push out the bullet but most of the explosion went out of the bottom of the case with the slide almost half racked. It even blew the mag out on the ground.
 
Hope between Federal and S&W they can get to the bottom of it. I can only imagine how scary it was. Be interesting to find out what the experts say. Looks like an ammo problem (bad case, over charge, something).

Hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.

Jeff
 
Hope between Federal and S&W they can get to the bottom of it. I can only imagine how scary it was. Be interesting to find out what the experts say. Looks like an ammo problem (bad case, over charge, something).

Hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.

Jeff

Well Smith told me pretty much that the gun would be replaced weather its them or Federal. They said Federal wouldn't have a problem at all if the ammo is faulty. This has probably happened more than we know. I know we got a good bunch of folks here that keep each other informed but there is tons of people out there who shoot that don't even know how to turn on a PC much less be a member of this forum. Smith even told me they would send me the 9 shield if I want or a different M&P pistol all together. They will receive my Shield 40 tomorrow morning.
 
Well Smith told me pretty much that the gun would be replaced weather its them or Federal. They said Federal wouldn't have a problem at all if the ammo is faulty. This has probably happened more than we know. I know we got a good bunch of folks here that keep each other informed but there is tons of people out there who shoot that don't even know how to turn on a PC much less be a member of this forum. Smith even told me they would send me the 9 shield if I want or a different M&P pistol all together. They will receive my Shield 40 tomorrow morning.

So far, no problems with my Shield 9mm. I only have about 150 rounds trough it but they have been a mix of hollow point, FMJ, and Hornady Critical Defense & Critical duty. So far, zero malfunctions. Only problem was me - I tend to use two thumbs forward hold on semi autos and on the 1911 pistols I ride the safety. Bad habit but it's how I shoot. Anyway, that hold and the small size of shield I had 2 times the slide didn't lock back on the last round. I was riding the slide stop and it wasn't the gun's fault, just sloppy hold.

Anyway, looking forward to hearing how it turns out and am really glad to hear yo were not hurt any worse than you were.

Jeff
 
I don't understand the 40 S&W round bashing.

This gun clearly shows the cartridge was ignited before it was fully in the barrel. The resulting explosion tore through the unsupported case and ripped the gun apart.

That has nothing to do with how much pressure the round has, or how thick or thin the barrel is. It has nothing to do with how much powder was in the cartridge, or 'double charged'. Can you double charge a 40? I don't load them so I don't know. Many rounds are full of powder with a single charge so doubling them is impossible.

I wish you luck resolving this, and I know I wouldn't be able to trust the gun again.

If you still want a 40, the compacts are nice. Or if S&W is really generous, ask for a M&P 45 compact... With night sights.... and a trigger job.... :p

.
 
Today me and dad were enjoying the nice weather and decided to shoot our guns. We shot the AR's and his Walther PPK 380 and his Sig 1922 pistols. I got out my Shield 40 out to shoot and was planning on putting 100 rounds down the pipe as the gun has only 150 rounds through it so far with about 10 Fail to ejects. I shot 50 UMC 180gr flawless with no issues except I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. So I got this box of Federal 180gr High Shock JHP. I load up 7 rounds bam bam boom on the 3rd round all I seen was a flash and got 3 small burns and where something hit under my eye and blood was running down my face. My hands were numb and just couldn't believe what had happened. Well it appears that my shield I guess you could say blew up in my hands. The mag flew out on the ground and I couldn't find the remaining ammo that was in the mag. There are 4 more rounds somewhere up in the hay field. What do you guys think about this and should I email Smith&Wesson and send them the pics or just call them first?

I am going to make a wild guess and say that you had an "out of battery" discharge. That pistol needs to go back to S&W.
 
Glad you are okay, except for the frazzled nerves.
No way I'd volunteer to go thru an experience like yours, but
you now have a war story for the rest of your days.
I'll be watching for your update, and your choice of
a replacement.
TACC1
 
Was the piece of brass that stayed in the chamber seated fully forward? If so, it wasn't an OOB (out of battery discharge). I think the fact that the case head is not blown out also indicates it was not an OOBD.

I'm curious about the OP's report of the gross inaccuracy as well as the 10 failures to extract. While certainly not conclusive, those are two pieces of data that I would expect to find in the event that extremely high pressures occurred when he previously fired the handgun.

The high pressure could have been caused by excess powder in the ammunition which, in this case, I doubt because the poor accuracy and FTE occurred with 2 or 3 different kinds of ammunition and at least 10 different rounds. It's unlikely that all of them were overcharged.

It also could have been caused by an incorrectly reamed chamber or one that was right on the "short" limit. If the chamber was short but within SAAMI specs or even shorter and the brass was long but within SAAMI specs or even longer, the tolerance stack would lead to the case mouth not being able to expand enough to release the bullet. The resulting high pressure would result in a catastrophic event.

I think what we have here is a case of the tolerance stack not working in a + & - manor (canceling each other out) but rather all tolerances added up in one direction. The resulting tolerance stack allowed the case mouth to seat far enough past the chamber mouth to create the above catastrophic event. When the case tried to expand it couldn't. I've never used the round the OP refers to and I don't know if it is crimped. However, in his case, crimped or not, his pistol was a ticking time bomb.

The 180 grain Winchester JHP 40 S&W round I regularly use has a heavy roll crimp that is about .060" long; about 1/16". If you apply that much crimp to an empty case and insert it into a chamber, you will see that the case cannot head-space on its mouth. The solution, so they think, is to rely on the bullet diameter to grab the rifling and stop the cartridge just like the case mouth would.

I was concerned when I saw such a heavy roll crimp on the cartridge because the cartridge is designed to head-space on the case mouth. When any case designed to head-space on its mouth is given a heavy roll crimp, it is impossible for it to head-space on its mouth. The ammo manufacturers are concerned about bullet set-back, I'm sure, and thus a heavy roll crimp is seen as a solution. And it is a solution that will work most of the time.

I believe the only way to load any case that head-spaces on the case mouth is to make sure that the case is sized small enough so that normal chambering stresses can not cause bullet setback thus eliminating the need for any crimp except perhaps a slight taper crimp that will still allow the case to head-space normally. Repeated chambering of the same bullet is a different matter.
 
Smith received my gun today at 10:18am. The ammo shipped out today also and expected delivery is Monday. I'll let you all know something as soon as I get a call.
 
From what I recall from hand loading days, a taper crimp on semi-auto ammo is intended to retain sufficient case mouth diameter to allow the forward rim of the case mouth to seat at the front of the chamber. The chamber is designed with a shoulder for this purpose--the round is intended to seat the case specifically against this shoulder at the front rim and against the breech face on the in-battery slide at the case head.

A rolled crimp on these rounds is asking for trouble. The only place a roll crimp makes sense is for revolver rounds where there is no headspace to maintain. And as Elmer Keith aficionados can attest, those crimps are necessary on heavy revolver loads to prevent the bullets from jumping forward under the forces of recoil and either leaving the cartridge case itself or protruding out the front end of the cylinder--thereby jamming up the gun and stopping the action.

And a cannelure in the semiautomatic case itself should prevent bullet setback so as to maintain proper overall length for the particular cartridge. This assures that (1) the powder charge does not become compressed and lead to over-pressure upon firing and (2) that the bullet is sufficiently forward to function as intended to enable the round to be transitioned out of the magazine and up the feed ramp into the chamber.

All factory ammo is "supposed" to be manufactured to spec and they make every effort to do so.

However--inspect the different makes and models of your ammo. How many have a cannelured case? And then use a go/no-go cartridge gauge on your loaded rounds--are they within spec for case length, overall length, and case diameter for that particular round?

Then--do you rack the same loaded round more than once? perhaps several times? Doing this can drive the bullet backward into the case, which can lead to Failure to Feed, and it can also cause cartridge case over-pressure due to the volume in the case itself becoming constrained as the bullet moves backward and crowds the propellant. If you do this--it is a self-imposed accident when you get an over-pressure event.

Enough said. We can't know whether the manufacturer might have overloaded propellant into a particular cartridge when we take them out to the range, but i suspect that should be less likely if we stick to the better brand names and to their higher end products. [I recently passed up a good price on aluminum case .40S&W ammo at a major outdoor chain--why take the chance?]

Not to say that in the search for more POW! we won't be tempted to look for and shoot ++++P ammo, but keep in mind the lessons learned by those who at one time tried to use 9-mm Uzi ammo in their handguns!
 
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I emailed Smith today just to ask if they have looked at my Shield 40 and this is the response I got back.

Dear Customer,

The gun is presently in our Met lab being tested in will be at least four weeks before we have a result.


If further assistance is required please reply accordingly.

Wow I wasn't expecting 4 weeks maybe 2 at the most. I dunno what all kinda testing has to be done but must really be a lot. I guess if thats what it takes. I still got my full size 9 M&P. Just wanted to let you guys know. I figure a lot of folks is wanting the result of this when they find out.
 
4 weeks is excessive. Maybe, it is only worse case estimate and it will happen quicker. However, they probably have enough on their plate trying to fix all of the Shields coming back that need to be fixed.

I appreciate your keeping us updated as to the progress.
 
Yeah, that's probably a "worst case" estimate.

If they can't determine what they need from a visual inspection and disassembly, they may opt for a full or partial metallurgical analysis (lab tests). How long this takes would depend on their facilities, how busy they are, or if they need to send parts to an outside lab or to the original part vendor. This includes what's left of the shell case.
 
Yeah, that's probably a "worst case" estimate.

If they can't determine what they need from a visual inspection and disassembly, they may opt for a full or partial metallurgical analysis (lab tests). How long this takes would depend on their facilities, how busy they are, or if they need to send parts to an outside lab or to the original part vendor. This includes what's left of the shell case.

I believe this is the testing they told me they would have to do to determine what happened. Metallurgical Hopefully it wont take that long but I guess it is what it is. I've had smith guns all my life and never had any issue till this happened. I have the FS M&P9mm, M&P15 MOE mid length, 22A bull barrel, 357mag model 66 and they have all been flawless.
 
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