Shield 45 failure to feed

[SingleStacked]

Howdy everyone, new guy here.


Sorry if I'm posting in the wrong place, I didn't see a troubleshooting section.

I have a 45 shield, brand new out of the box. It's seen about 250 rounds so far, as I've been trying my hardest to break this pistol in. However, every second shot in both my magazines, without fail, have all failed to feed on me.


I'll submit the link to a picture of what it looks like when the slide locks back, because I've never seen something like this happen before. The guy at the S&W customer service hotline was next to useless, and has likewise never heard of such a thing happening.


It seems the slide doesn't come back far enough to load the next round, so I figured I was limp wristing. However, tightening my grip resulted in EVERY shot jamming. Sometimes the slide won't even lock back, it'll instead not feed at all and I'll hear a "click" to let me know the gun didn't feed.

I've let a few guys I work with shoot the gun too, and naturally they haven't had any problems. They, however, have only shot about 5 rounds a piece. I'd like to think I have some sort of an idea of what I'm doing with guns (obviously not, though).


This whole thing is really frustrating as I'm absolutely infatuated with the shield. The ammo I'm using is Armscor, 230 grain... If that helps

 

[AZRenegade]

Well, if your friends shot 5 rounds each with no problems and you can't get 2 rounds through, I would say you were on to something. Let a friend shoot a few magazines and if there is no problem, you may have to accept the fact that there is something wrong with your shooting mechanics.

 

[SingleStacked]

What could it possibly be that I'm doing wrong? It's not like this is my first time shooting. I've noticed the slide almost grinds against the lower receiver when I rack it, and the mag release is stiffer than it normally would be so I have a suspicion that this is just a faulty model


And, yes I'm also open to suggestions on how to handle the gun better but I'm getting frustrated because nobody can specifically tell me what to change besides a more firm grip

 

[oink]

Confirm it's not the gun by having someone else, a shooter, run some more rounds through it.

 

[gwpercle]

And you might try another brand of ammo...just to see how it acts.
Gary

 

[WRA]

What could it possibly be that I'm doing wrong? It's not like this is my first time shooting. I've noticed the slide almost grinds against the lower receiver when I rack it, and the mag release is stiffer than it normally would be so I have a suspicion that this is just a faulty model


And, yes I'm also open to suggestions on how to handle the gun better but I'm getting frustrated because nobody can specifically tell me what to change besides a more firm grip

Interesting! Please keep us posted on your findings.

 

[lkabug]

Rule out the gun first. Let others shoot several magazines. Change ammo. Clean and lubricate to factory specs. Excess lubrication is not better. let us know the outcome.
BTW, Welcome from the Commonwealth of Virginia.

 

[gunny4053]

First, don't beat the CS guy up to bad as he's right, this is all but unheard of from the Shield .45. With few exceptions, the Shield .45 has been rock solid from the beginning. One question for you, is this a safety or non-safety model? Since you've had others shoot it with no problem, I too would have to assume there's something you're doing. I'd also try some different ammo, maybe Magtech or even Winchester White box.


As to the grinding when you rack the slide, that's normal. Look at the inside of the slide that rides over the ammo in the mag. That serrated section is what you're hearing and is designed that way. Double check your mags to insure they're fully seated, if they're out by just a fraction, the gun won't feed properly and could create the issue you're experiencing.

 

[Sgt Neutron]

A few questions:
1. Can you clear the failure by simply retracting the slide and letting it slide into battery(closed)? Or do you need to remove he magazine to clear it?
2. Does the cartridge that fails to feed "nose down" in the magazine?
3. Does this only happen on the second round out of the magazine?

I had a .45 Shield that had a FTF on the second round out of the magazine i.e., the round on the top of the magazine fed OK, the second would "nose down" with the slide retracted. Retracting the slide furthur, and letting it slam into battery would clear the malfunction.
I had the "new" magazines with the notched follower.
This malfunction would happen regardless of ammo type.
It would only happen on the second round out of the magazine.


There have been some forum threads about this type of problem with the .45 shield (the 9mm & .40 S&W Shields never had a similar FTF, AFAIK).

 

[swsig]

Failure to feed was a significant problem with early model Shield 45s. So much so that Smith & Wesson had to redesign the magazine followers and issue the new ones to all the owners. I know, because I had an early failure-to-feed model. However, that was a couple of years ago, so yours will have the updated followers.

My guess is that it's the ammo. Because a new gun is tight, a higher-powered ammo may be needed to fully cycle the slide. When my FNX-T 45 was new, it didn't cycle the first few rounds of ammo, so I immediately switched to American Eagle (890 fps muzzle velocity, 406 ft-lbs muzzle energy), and had no problems thereafter. Armscor has 368 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, which is not bad, but you may need more. My suggestion is to try American Eagle, or better yet, some +P rated self-defense rounds like Federal HST, which has 461 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. That should loosen things up.

If that doesn't work, and it still won't cycle when other shooters use it, it may be something mechanical, like a bad recoil spring assembly. If it's too weak, it could cause the symptoms you describe. If that appears to be the case, S&W will send you a new one for free. And don't give up on Customer Service. Many of us here have had good experiences with S&W's CS people.

Wecome to the Forum!

 

[Mark MN]

I had a similar issue with my .45 shield as well. It seemed to get better on its own the more I shot it. I have about 500 rounds through it now FWIW. I also have been oiling the feed ramp to the barrel and the ramp in the frame right below it more than I did at first. That also seemed to help. Hope you get yours figured out. It is a pain when it jams up like that.

 

[RobzGuns]

As AZrenegade wrote, since other shooters were unable to reproduce the failure, it MIGHT be shooter related, but the puzzle is, what are you doing different from the other shooters?

Have someone watch your hands while you shoot it. There may be something (other than grip strength) that could be contributing.

Since it's a 'Nose Down' FTF, check the mag springs, to ensure that they were not installed backwards. It doesn't happen often, but it has been known to lead to nose down feeding. The thing is... A backwards spring would most likely cause problems to everyone who shoots it... not just you.

An RSA that's too strong could cause the slide not to retract completely, but again... That would cause problems for everyone... Not just you.

Interesting.

 

[ontargetagain]

How about your contact with the slide lock mechanism, any chance you are engaging it or safety if you have one with the safety?
When you load your mags do you give them a firm whap to set the rounds against the mag?

It is obvious it is something you are doing if it did not happen to three other people in my opinion, are your hands a lot bigger or smaller than theirs, grip position should be observed on your part to make sure you are not interfering with slide movement.

Try a few rounds one-handed
Karl

 

[Funflyer]

Failure to feed was a significant problem with early model Shield 45s. So much so that Smith & Wesson had to redesign the magazine followers and issue the new ones to all the owners. I know, because I had an early failure-to-feed model. However, that was a couple of years ago, so yours will have the updated followers.
Wecome to the Forum!

I'm not familiar with this follower change. Is this a different re-design than the one they did for the mag drop issue that people were having? With that one, they simply added a channel/groove at the front of the follower so it wouldn't contact the mag release.

 

[AZRenegade]

I'm not familiar with this follower change. Is this a different re-design than the one they did for the mag drop issue that people were having? With that one, they simply added a channel/groove at the front of the follower so it wouldn't contact the mag release.

Nope, their one and the same.

SingleStacked: Have you tried running a full magazine of ammo through the .45 manually yet?

 

[Rastoff]

...the puzzle is, what are you doing different from the other shooters?

This is the key. Clearly it's a shooter related issue because NONE of the other shooters had the issue.

This one will have to be diagnosed in person. To fix it, we will need to see your grip and you shooting, as well as the gun itself. It could be a gun issue, but it doesn't sound like it.

"Grinding" is an ambiguous term. What one person sees as grinding another wouldn't notice at all. This grinding you seem to feel must also be examined in person. If it's really grinding bad, this is a serious issue and the gun needs to be sent back to S&W immediately. However, it could also be a normal function of this particular type of gun that you're just not familiar with.

Since we don't commonly hear people complain about a grinding sound, I suspect this could be a bigger problem.

Where do you live?

 

[JH1951]

The first thing I would do is disassemble the pistol and give it a thorough cleaning (all nooks and crannies), Then, as suggested above, lubricate it as the factory instructs. Then test it. If the situation persists, switch ammunition, and test again. I would also take another shooter along to see if their results are consistently better than yours. If so, the problem gets narrowed down to the user. Fixing that issue is a personal thing where first you must determine what it is the shooter who has no issue is doing differently.
The suggestion about assuring the magazine is properly stacked by rapping the spine of the mag against a flat solid surface is also a good one. Have the 'other shooters' been loading their own magazines, or have you been loading for all shooters? It could be as simple as that - but I would still do the thorough cleaning. Typically, they are not as ready to shoot out of the box as we may wish or expect.
Please keep us posted.

 

[Fastbolt]

Some thoughts ...

Smaller .45 pistols generally demand more of the shooter, meaning more in the way of grip stability and technique. They may also exhibit a bit more sensitivity to some ammunition factors, like recoil impulse (over or under-pressure loads, or other QC issues).

Gripping a pistol harder is not the same thing as locking your wrist and preventing your wrist from momentarily "breaking" and flexing at the critical moment in the recoil cycle. (This is why it's sometimes referred to as limp-wristing, and not limp-gripping ... although I prefer to use the term grip technique instability, myself.) This can prevent the slide from running fully to the rear of its intended "travel", and at the same time "rob" force from the recoil spring assembly and interfere with its ability to do its intended job. Both of these things can produce feeding stoppages.

The "grinding" noise you hear when manually retracting the slide might be caused by a couple normal things.

If you're doing it to load and chamber the first round, you're probably hearing the necessary machined scalloped edges of the slide's pickup rail (also called a stripper bolt) sliding over the nose of the top round. Normal. (A way to avoid this is to lock the slide back before inserting the magazine, and then releasing the slide to go forward and chamber the top round.)

Another source might be the sound of the recoil spring edges rubbing against the bottom of the barrel when the barrel drops down out-of-battery. This "scrunching" noise is often very noticeable in some different plastic pistols, and is why I usually rub a bit of oil back along the bottom of the barrel's exterior surface at that spot. (Look to see if there's any signs of "wear rubs", and just rub a bit of oil there before reassembling the gun next time, when you're rubbing oil around the front of the barrel.)

As others have suggested, having a more experienced shooter try your Shield 45 to see how it functions for them may be helpful in eliminating you as the problem.

Sure, you could get a shipping label from the factory to return it for a warranty inspection & test-fire, but if they find nothing wrong with it you still have to figure out what you're not doing properly as the shooter.

A clean and normally lubed gun and the use of good quality ammunition produced by one of the major American ammo companies is a good place to start.

Is this happening with the 7rd magazine? If so, have you disassembled it at all? If you did, did you replace the buttplate catch guides so they're on the outside of the magazine body (on each side)? Is the spring and follower installed properly? Is the inside of the magazine clean and dry? (No lube inside the mag.)

Don't allow some well-wisher to offer to disassemble the Shield 45 slide for you to "check things out", either. The extractor in the Shield 45 is different in that it not only uses an extractor pin and spring, but it also has an "inside" plunger and plunger spring which nestles within a recess in the extractor (lengthwise), and the plunger seats against the extractor pin. If the extractor is removed from the slide, and its plunger and plunger spring removed, the pin, plunger and both springs are supposed to be replaced with new ones for reassembly. Not something done by the owner/user for regular cleaning.

Like I said, though, the smaller the .45 pistol, the more it demands of both the shooter (grip technique & support) and the ammo (good quality, not under or over-powered). A less experienced shooter may not have a problem using what's essentially a marginal grip technique using a full-size .45, but the marginal grip might prove to be insufficient with a compact and subcompact model.

Personally, having fired the Shield 45 with 230gr duty ammunition, I found it to have a surprisingly short and sharp recoil impulse compared to my 4513TSW and CS45, both of which have somewhat smoother recoil characteristics. Felt recoil is a very subjective thing, though, and it usually varies from one person to the next, and sometimes may even change for the same person over the course of different days.

Anyway, just some thoughts, let us know what you decide. It's certainly not a bad idea to ask to have the gun inspected by the factory under their warranty.

Oh yeah, as far as calling their Customer Support ...

We've been told in some of the armorer classes that the customer service desks may have anywhere from 18-35 people answering phones on any day. We've been told that the people working the phones may range from longtime employees who have previously worked in production or repair, to newer employees who may have only worked in the company's retail store, some of whom may not ever have fired a gun (but sold other retail merchandise in the store). They answer phones. The Pistol Repair people work on the guns.