Florida J Frame
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According to the OP this was a NEW round from Freedom Munitions
Shield 9mm, Can't Rack Slide, Live Round in Chamber
- Thread starter Larry1945
- Start date
According to the OP this was a NEW round from Freedom Munitions
Yes, this round came from a box of "NEW" 9mm ammo from Freedom. That teardrop-looking thing on the primer is not an indentation - it's a blob of something that looks for all the world like solder. Which begs the question, what role could solder possibly have in any part of the manufacturing process?
As far as exactly what happened when I first pulled the trigger on that round, I can't swear to anything. It was the last round in the clip, and I don't remember feeling or hearing a click, like it was a misfire. I think when I pulled the trigger there was just...nothing. I immediately tried to rack the slide, it wouldn't budge, and the rest is history.
I'm no gunsmith, nor do I have in-depth knowledge of how a striker-fired handgun works. I'd like to know as much as anyone exactly what happened when the slide rammed that round home with a raised primer and a blob of something on top of it. All I know is that it locked up the slide and took a few hard whacks with a big nylon hammer to break it loose. If someone can fill in the blanks, I'd be as interested as anyone.
I do have a theory...I don't think the gun ever got into battery with that round in the chamber. I think that's why I got nothing when I pulled the trigger, and why the armorer wasn't at all afraid of the gun after testing the slide himself and pulling the trigger. I think he knew it was out-of-battery and wasn't afraid to just beat on it with a hammer to break the slide loose. That's what I think...
As far as exactly what happened when I first pulled the trigger on that round, I can't swear to anything. It was the last round in the clip, and I don't remember feeling or hearing a click, like it was a misfire. I think when I pulled the trigger there was just...nothing. I immediately tried to rack the slide, it wouldn't budge, and the rest is history.
I'm no gunsmith, nor do I have in-depth knowledge of how a striker-fired handgun works. I'd like to know as much as anyone exactly what happened when the slide rammed that round home with a raised primer and a blob of something on top of it. All I know is that it locked up the slide and took a few hard whacks with a big nylon hammer to break it loose. If someone can fill in the blanks, I'd be as interested as anyone.
I do have a theory...I don't think the gun ever got into battery with that round in the chamber. I think that's why I got nothing when I pulled the trigger, and why the armorer wasn't at all afraid of the gun after testing the slide himself and pulling the trigger. I think he knew it was out-of-battery and wasn't afraid to just beat on it with a hammer to break the slide loose. That's what I think...
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Johnrh
Member
This why I put every round I reload into the box with the bullet down and the primer up. When the box is full I inspect every primer. I see guys at our range with the bullet up and ask them why? They say it's just the way they do it. Go figure. As I insert the round into the magazine or clip or even single load when in slow fire I give another inspection of the entire round before inserting. And yes, I have caught some high primers, very rarely, but they can happen.
An "Armorer" or smith that does a free service should have at least a $10 bill stuffed into his shirt pocket, and insist on it. That should buy him lunch.....I'm sure it was worth at least that to get you and your gun "whole" again.........
Look at your breech face. The "teardrop" is a result of firing a round. Glocks are square, other handguns have distinctive marks.
I'm not saying you didn't have an ammo failure, but I've shot 1000's of rounds of 9mm, .45, .38 sp and .357m from FM without issue.
I'm not saying you didn't have an ammo failure, but I've shot 1000's of rounds of 9mm, .45, .38 sp and .357m from FM without issue.
It's not a bad idea. The problem with "What can happen" posts is that 80% of the responses tend to be, "Only an idiot would let that happen." I personally embrace the fact that I can make mistakes, and I like hearing what can go wrong as a warning to help me catch problems - whether caused by gun, ammo, me or Mr. Murphy. But I promise, people will chime in saying, "That could never happen to me!"
And there are the others that are too embarrassed to admit to falling prey to those circumstances......and there are lots of them. (us) Only human, huh?
Right on!!
Flyingfool
Member
Question:
Other than brand new brass versus a once (or more) fired brass. In a factory setting; the bullet, powder and primer are all new. Whether the casing being loaded is new or "remanufactured."
I would have to assume that the used brass must go through some sort of check for max OAL.
So really why all this angst over the new versus remanufactured?
Especially in this case where the issue appears to be a messed up primer. Which could have gone into a new or prefired brass case.
I would agree we would all hope quality control finds 100% of every defect every time. But we all also know that perfection is impossible despite best attempts at striving to achieve it.
Other than brand new brass versus a once (or more) fired brass. In a factory setting; the bullet, powder and primer are all new. Whether the casing being loaded is new or "remanufactured."
I would have to assume that the used brass must go through some sort of check for max OAL.
So really why all this angst over the new versus remanufactured?
Especially in this case where the issue appears to be a messed up primer. Which could have gone into a new or prefired brass case.
I would agree we would all hope quality control finds 100% of every defect every time. But we all also know that perfection is impossible despite best attempts at striving to achieve it.
Another possibility...
Earlier today I posed a theory that the gun never went into battery when that round went into the chamber. That's a possibility, but here's another one. The primer on that round was not fully seated, and it was further raised by that blob in the middle of it. As high as that primer was, it could have easily caused a slam-fire when it entered the chamber. I likely wouldn't have noticed it, as the gun was in recoil from the previous round. But if you look at that round, there's a definite pin hole in the middle of that blob, like it was struck by a firing pin. It wouldn't have fired the round; the blob would've kept it from ever getting to the primer. That would explain why I felt nothing when I pulled the trigger on that round - the striker had already been released due to the slam-fire. Does that make sense to anyone besides me?
Earlier today I posed a theory that the gun never went into battery when that round went into the chamber. That's a possibility, but here's another one. The primer on that round was not fully seated, and it was further raised by that blob in the middle of it. As high as that primer was, it could have easily caused a slam-fire when it entered the chamber. I likely wouldn't have noticed it, as the gun was in recoil from the previous round. But if you look at that round, there's a definite pin hole in the middle of that blob, like it was struck by a firing pin. It wouldn't have fired the round; the blob would've kept it from ever getting to the primer. That would explain why I felt nothing when I pulled the trigger on that round - the striker had already been released due to the slam-fire. Does that make sense to anyone besides me?
Hi-
Here is another possible theory.
That is not a "blob" of some foreign material on the primer you pictured. Take a look at the firing pin hole on your breach face, it is the exact same shape. I think it is primer flow back into the breach face from a squib load. If you pull the bullet I you my find no powder. The primer went off, did not unseat the bullet, but had enough force to cause primer flow-back and lock up your action.
Here is another possible theory.
That is not a "blob" of some foreign material on the primer you pictured. Take a look at the firing pin hole on your breach face, it is the exact same shape. I think it is primer flow back into the breach face from a squib load. If you pull the bullet I you my find no powder. The primer went off, did not unseat the bullet, but had enough force to cause primer flow-back and lock up your action.
ggibson511960
Member
The Most Plausible Explanation
This is the explanation that makes the most sense. The teardrop shaped bulge is much larger than the firing pin hole, but it would get that way as the case head was pushed away from the breech face. In my experience there is a threshold pressure level for primer cups to obturate against the primer pocket. Once this pressure level is reached the primer stays put and will not bulge out of the case head. They will flatten and cup material will flow around the firing pin, but not move out of the case. Low pressure is a different deal. The primer cup will move back, pushing the case further into the chamber. There is likely some slack to do this with SAAMI spec chambers and case length. When the primer moves back, the flat face of the primer can bulge or otherwise deform further, explaining the large teardrop shaped glob.
All this speculation could be easily ended with a disassembly of the faulty round. I'm betting that the bullet has chamber leade indentations or even rifling groove engravings. More telling, does the case have any powder? Will somebody donate a kinetic pullet puller to the OP?
These forensic discussions are fun and educational, sort of like the old column in Popular Mechanics where a car malfunction puzzle was posed to auto mechanics, or Car Talk's funny bit, Stump the Chumps.
This is the explanation that makes the most sense. The teardrop shaped bulge is much larger than the firing pin hole, but it would get that way as the case head was pushed away from the breech face. In my experience there is a threshold pressure level for primer cups to obturate against the primer pocket. Once this pressure level is reached the primer stays put and will not bulge out of the case head. They will flatten and cup material will flow around the firing pin, but not move out of the case. Low pressure is a different deal. The primer cup will move back, pushing the case further into the chamber. There is likely some slack to do this with SAAMI spec chambers and case length. When the primer moves back, the flat face of the primer can bulge or otherwise deform further, explaining the large teardrop shaped glob.
All this speculation could be easily ended with a disassembly of the faulty round. I'm betting that the bullet has chamber leade indentations or even rifling groove engravings. More telling, does the case have any powder? Will somebody donate a kinetic pullet puller to the OP?
These forensic discussions are fun and educational, sort of like the old column in Popular Mechanics where a car malfunction puzzle was posed to auto mechanics, or Car Talk's funny bit, Stump the Chumps.
Well, I gotta admit, that does make the most sense, more than some mysterious glob of something that got attached to the primer. There are no marks of any kind on the bullet that I can see, nor does my breech face show any similar-shaped marks around the firing pin hole.
Listen, if someone has the equipment and know how to do an autopsy on this round, I would be happy to donate it to science. That person would, of course, have to get back on here and let us know the findings. Any takers?
Listen, if someone has the equipment and know how to do an autopsy on this round, I would be happy to donate it to science. That person would, of course, have to get back on here and let us know the findings. Any takers?
Okay, no takers, and that's fine. I'll just keep that round as a painful reminder to check all my primers before loading the gun.
Thanks to all of you who participated in this discussion; it was both fun and educational. You've been very kind to this newbie on the forum, and your contributions are greatly appreciated!
Thanks to all of you who participated in this discussion; it was both fun and educational. You've been very kind to this newbie on the forum, and your contributions are greatly appreciated!
Jeppo
Member
Larry,
Nobody knows everything about firearms and most of us learn something new each day (often thanks to another forum participant). For me, that's what makes this such a great hobby.
By the way, your "newbie" experience taught me a lesson. Thanks for sharing it.
Nobody knows everything about firearms and most of us learn something new each day (often thanks to another forum participant). For me, that's what makes this such a great hobby.
By the way, your "newbie" experience taught me a lesson. Thanks for sharing it.
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If the mysterious glob is not foreign material, then primer flow-back perhaps due to blocked or lack of hole in the casing between primer pocket and casing barrel?
This possibility could be confirmed by an autopsy of the round in question. I could do it, but will be traveling for the next few weeks. If you can wait until late October, PM me for a shipping address. -S2
This possibility could be confirmed by an autopsy of the round in question. I could do it, but will be traveling for the next few weeks. If you can wait until late October, PM me for a shipping address. -S2
Rastoff
US Veteran
I have a bullet puller and can get the bullet out to see if there's any powder in there. Shoot me a PM if you want to send it to me.
jwk
Member
If it is a small shop take them a treat like a deli meat plate or a cheesecake. Trade there when you need stuff. Brag on the shop to your buddies. If you're in the store and it is full say nice things where other customers hear you. Shops like that are hard to find.
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