Shield back to S&W for the THIRD time

[Rastoff]

I'm kind of an inexperienced shooter but I have a shield 9mm and I would like to know in your guys opinion how many FTEs is considered negligible or acceptable?

If it is going to be a self defense gun, zero malfunctions are acceptable.

...I have had one awful night where i got 5 FTEs that all looked a lot like the pictures in this thread. It was really strange they all happened right after another but then the next time i went to the range after that, i put 300 rounds through it with not a single FTE.

As you said, this would leave me to believe that it was you rather than the gun.

Does it sound like something is seriously wrong or is 5 or 6 FTE's out of about 500 rounds considered normal ?

Not having been there, it doesn't sound like something serious. Even so, 5 or 6 out of 500 is unacceptable. I generally like to run 500 rounds without a failure before I'd carry a particular gun. This is not "scientific", it's just what I do.

Statistically speaking, it takes about 30 events to consider something reliable. That is enough to give a statistically significant result. That has to include all the potential components of the system. So, if you have a .40S&W with 6 round mags, it would seem that you would satisfy the requirement by shooting 5 mags. Unfortunately, that's not quite right.

To be truly thorough, you'd have to test every bullet position 30 times to get a statistical significance. That means using each mag 30 times or 180 shots from each mag. If you have 2 mags, that's 360 shots. Add more mags or mags with different capacities and the numbers just increase. Change ammo and you'd have to start all over again.

Thus, 500 rounds without a failure is a good number. So, you have 300 without a failure. Another 200 without a failure and I'd say the failures were caused by your grip or some other human error.

 

[t1.8matt]

That sucks to hear that so many people are having problems with their Shields. The only way I was able to make mine fail was to give it to someone who hasn't shot a gun in 40 years. He limp wristed it and caused a FTE on the first round. I hope some of you guys who haven't gotten them completely fixed yet do get them done and get to enjoy some uninterrupted shooting time.

 

[catalyst686]

Since the thread has been brought back to life, I'll give a little update. Looks like it's been nearly 6 weeks since I sent my shield in for the third time. I called S&W yesterday to see if I could get an ETA at very least of when I would get my new gun, as the old gun has already been destroyed. The rep said that a new batch of shields were just produced and they are ready for distribution. I was told to expect a call from my ffl soon. I will inspect it very well before I shoot it to see if I can discover any difference when compared to my old shield. I have plenty of ammo to test it out with if I decide to keep it. I plan to put 500 rounds through it. I'd like to put an assortment of ammo through it, especially with the ammo that caused failures before. I have magtec 115 grn, WWB 115 grn, federal 115 grn, along with the carry rounds I plan to carry which are hornady critical defense 115 grn. I really want the gun to perform flawlessly, I'll do my part to ensure there are no user related malfunctions, which I highly doubt played a factor in the first place with my first shield.

 

[BT283]

Here is a Blazer round.

Had the same failure in my gun one in 200 rounds so far but it was with a tulammo round

 

[DeeBee]

Since the thread has been brought back to life, I'll give a little update. Looks like it's been nearly 6 weeks since I sent my shield in for the third time. I called S&W yesterday to see if I could get an ETA at very least of when I would get my new gun, as the old gun has already been destroyed. The rep said that a new batch of shields were just produced and they are ready for distribution. I was told to expect a call from my ffl soon. I will inspect it very well before I shoot it to see if I can discover any difference when compared to my old shield. I have plenty of ammo to test it out with if I decide to keep it. I plan to put 500 rounds through it. I'd like to put an assortment of ammo through it, especially with the ammo that caused failures before. I have magtec 115 grn, WWB 115 grn, federal 115 grn, along with the carry rounds I plan to carry which are hornady critical defense 115 grn. I really want the gun to perform flawlessly, I'll do my part to ensure there are no user related malfunctions, which I highly doubt played a factor in the first place with my first shield.

You should have asked for a .40......

 

[catalyst686]

Update, it's been nearly 4 months and still haven't received my new shield. I've called smith and wesson many times, I talked to a rep on 12/20/13 who said "I'll personally oversee this and make sure you have it by Christmas." That obviously didn't happen, called back at the beginning of this month and talked to a rep who said that the wait time is now up to 6 month. You have got to be kidding me, I've asked to talk to supervisors, the reps are extremely hesitant to transfer people directly to supervisors for some reason. I ended up having to convince the rep to transfer me to a supervisor, straight to voice mail, left a short detailed message, haven't heard anything back, and I doubt I ever will. Not to mention, every time you call customer service it takes a minimum of 30 minutes to actually talk to someone after being on hold. I can't begin to explain the frustration at this point, I'll honestly never buy a S&W product again, they had 3 chances to fix the gun and slacked each time, then decide it'll be 6 months before I get a new one. The market is completely flooded with shields, facebook pages of FFL's are constantly making status updates of the hundreds of shields they are frequently getting, yet Smith cant send one shield to a guy who has had to send it back 3 times, spent hours on the phone with CS, and probably spent a thousand bucks on ammo to test the gun each time he's gotten it back. Not to mention the money I've spent on holsters, night sights and mags. WELL, rant over. Happy new year everyone.

 

[Sharks06lly]

sorry to hear about your problems, i have put 900 plus rounds of a mix of wwb, federal, tula, blazer, and some assorted hollow points and not one fte or any malfunction at all.

 

[Nakanokalronin]

Update, it's been nearly 4 months and still haven't received my new shield. I've called smith and wesson many times, I talked to a rep on 12/20/13 who said "I'll personally oversee this and make sure you have it by Christmas." That obviously didn't happen, called back at the beginning of this month and talked to a rep who said that the wait time is now up to 6 month. You have got to be kidding me, I've asked to talk to supervisors, the reps are extremely hesitant to transfer people directly to supervisors for some reason. I ended up having to convince the rep to transfer me to a supervisor, straight to voice mail, left a short detailed message, haven't heard anything back, and I doubt I ever will. Not to mention, every time you call customer service it takes a minimum of 30 minutes to actually talk to someone after being on hold. I can't begin to explain the frustration at this point, I'll honestly never buy a S&W product again, they had 3 chances to fix the gun and slacked each time, then decide it'll be 6 months before I get a new one. The market is completely flooded with shields, facebook pages of FFL's are constantly making status updates of the hundreds of shields they are frequently getting, yet Smith cant send one shield to a guy who has had to send it back 3 times, spent hours on the phone with CS, and probably spent a thousand bucks on ammo to test the gun each time he's gotten it back. Not to mention the money I've spent on holsters, night sights and mags. WELL, rant over. Happy new year everyone.

I'm on 5 months now waiting for my S&W 500 to be replaced. A M&P, especially a Shield, should of been replaced right away considering they're everywhere now. There really is no excuse for that one.

 

[71velle]

This sucks to hear I have a 9mm Shield will 135 rounds through it and have had 3 FTEs. 2 with cheep tulammo and 1 with Blazer aluminum case stuff. I sure hope that clean, lube and good ammo eliminate the problem.

 

[Nakanokalronin]

This sucks to hear I have a 9mm Shield will 135 rounds through it and have had 3 FTEs. 2 with cheep tulammo and 1 with Blazer aluminum case stuff. I sure hope that clean, lube and good ammo eliminate the problem.

Any problems with brass? I tend to bypass aluminum ammo all together and steel cases aren't always the best even though they should work. My experience with Tulammo is underpowered, inconsistent accuracy and very dirty.

 

[71velle]

Any problems with brass? I tend to bypass aluminum ammo all together and steel cases aren't always the best even though they should work. My experience with Tulammo is underpowered, inconsistent accuracy and very dirty.

The Tulammo was brass but it was the stuff made in Bosina. Now to be fair I did not clean and lube before firing it that matters. I was able to fire 50 rounds of PMC without issue, so I am not jumping to conclusions. But is sure sucks to know that If I do have a problem I could run into the poor service as the OP. I have always heard about Smiths CS being second to none and that helped me to make the decision to buy the shield.

 

[Stinger083]

Un freaking believable.

 

[bulldogman]

This can't be the way S&W does business. The rep. your dealing with has dropped the ball in some way. It's time to start making some noise further up the ladder until you get a replacement, or at this point a refund.

 

[Stinger083]

He's indicated that he's dealt with several different reps in the customer service department, including supervisors who don't come to the phone or respond to voicemails...

I can tell you e-mail won't get you much further, no matter how valid your complaint and professional your tone. It takes about 72 hours for a response, and if you do get one, they are less than helpful.

 

[Rastoff]

Un freaking believable. The horror stories on this forum, in addition to my own dealings with S&W customer service have convinced me to never purchase another gun from this company. I'll keep the ones I've got, but no more S&W for me...

While I might understand your reluctance if you've only read a couple of threads, but a short search will reveal that there are vastly more satisfied dealings with S&W customer service than unsatisfied. S&W is a large company and I'll bet their customer service gets a thousand calls a day. To make this statement over a few dissatisfied or poorly handled issues is a little premature.

But, to keep things in perspective, why not list the "horror" stories you've read on this forum? That way we can see in a nutshell the cause of your outrage.

 

[BLuRRnAWAY]

I have 1,000 rounds through my shield I purchased a couple weeks ago, I have had 30 FTE and that is because of Tul Ammo I had purchased at walmart. Other than that ammo It has fired flawlessly. Good luck to you!

 

[Stinger083]

I'm not about to go sifting through 9 months worth of threads. My decision to not purchase was based on my personal experience with customer service in addition to the numerous experiences that others have shared on this forum.

I'm an active member on other forums for other guns that I own, including my carry weapon which is a Walther PPS. Every forum has a sizable amount of posts that are complaints. The difference here is how those complaints are dealt with.

Leaving customers in the dark, giving them the runaround, and an overall lack of urgency is unacceptable when you spend this kind of money. Not saying S&W doesn't make a quality product, they do---I'm very happy with my guns that perform, so I'm not taking that away from them. But, I just don't know that I can rely on them to take care of me in the event I start having problems.

EDIT: I know I'm coming down really hard on S&W. I shouldn't say that I will never buy another gun from them... they are great guns. They have just really disappointed me. Working in the customer service industry, I am a very passionate customer advocate. I feel the same amount of frustration for people like catalyst686 as I did in my own dealings (which started at the end of September and are still ongoing). My hope is that somebody from S&W will read some of these stories and recognize that there is room for improvement.

Sorry for the rant, but as a former business manager this is something I feel very strongly about. I hold S&W in high regard and expect more from them.

 

[71velle]

I have 1,000 rounds through my shield I purchased a couple weeks ago, I have had 30 FTE and that is because of Tul Ammo I had purchased at walmart. Other than that ammo It has fired flawlessly. Good luck to you!

Was it the Brass stuff that is in 100 round cans, or the 50 rounds in a box?

 

[skip4309]

Damn!! Mine has functioned flawlessly with over 800 rds...been using cheap and good ammo...good luck....

 

[BrowningMaxus]

I have had one FTE in 200 rounds now. After reading this thread I am really hoping that was me doing something wrong.