Shipping guns without the use of a (shipping)FFL??

[Rule3]

I have noticed several for sale guns (here and elsewhere) that state they will only ship to a FFL that takes a copy of their drivers license

OK that is up to the receiving FFL But there really is no way to do so "legally" or within common carrier policies?

ATF says it can be done using a a common carrier which would be UPS or FedEX, BUT neither allow a non licensee to do so.(they used to, but heck it is more expensive than going through a FFL)

It is illegal to ship a handgun through USPS by a non licensee.

So how are these people doing it?? Not telling UPS or FedEx what's in the package? What happens if the package gets lost, damaged or inspected?? I doubt either would pay a claim.

 

[wood714]

Back in December I wanted to ship a AR lower receiver to a shop outside Orlando to get some work done on it. The AR lower is the only part considered a gun.

I was shipping it to a FFL/SOT, and asked him how I should ship it to him.

He told me to put it in a box and mail it to him. The post office asked...“Does this parcel contain anything liquid, fragile, perishable, or potentially hazardous?” Said no, paid and left.

This may be the absolute way NOT to do it thou.

 

[arjay]

They’re gambling they won’t get caught to save a few bucks. I doubt it’s worth it if you do get caught

 

[mojave30cal]

I sold a .38 M&P on this forum last month. I had to bend over
and grab my ankles to ship through an FFL. It wasn't cheap.
Looking to sell locally next time.

 

[walnutred]

Last time I shipped a handgun through a local FFL it was pretty simple. I took the revolver, packaging and receiving FFL license to my local dealer. He checked the serial number then entered it into his bound book, he then noted in his bound book that the pistol had been removed from inventory and made a copy of the receiving FFL for his records.

I then sealed up the package and took it down to the local PO and I paid for shipping and insurance. The label I had printed up showed the local dealers address as the return address but inside the package was a copy of the auction receipt showing the buyers info and my info.

It was pretty painless and straight forward and we both thought we were following the Federal rules. He charged me $25.

 

[Thiokol]

I bought a C&R handgun on this forum. The seller isn't an FFL and doesn't have a C&R license but he sent it to me via priority mail. Obviously, he didn't care that he was breaking the law.

My local FFL will ship a handgun for a total fee of $50.00 all in.

 

[twodog max]

Ship my Gun .com

 

[ladder13]

Simple, they do it to save a buck, more than you might think.

My FFL received a forum gun some 3 years ago. Sent USPS with nothing but the gun in the box, not even wrapped up.
He was not amused and he does/did receive from individuals.

A long gun CAN be sent via the USPS where LEGAL.

 

[Yendor357]

I’ve honestly never done it, but what would be the difference between shipping a gun to a buyer, than selling it to them at a gun show?

UPS had, and may still have the company policy of not accepting handguns for shipment. The reason for that policy was because so many of the handguns got “lost”. Not because of legalities. I worked at UPS for 43 years.

Anyone with a printer and an internet connection can go on UPS.com and generate a label. For contents, that person could list “tools” and insure it for whatever amount they wanted. If the package never makes it to the destination, who’s the wiser? The claim would still be paid.

 

[Onomea]

Last time I shipped a handgun through a local FFL it was pretty simple. I took the revolver, packaging and receiving FFL license to my local dealer. He checked the serial number then entered it into his bound book, he then noted in his bound book that the pistol had been removed from inventory and made a copy of the receiving FFL for his records.

I then sealed up the package and took it down to the local PO and I paid for shipping and insurance. The label I had printed up showed the local dealers address as the return address but inside the package was a copy of the auction receipt showing the buyers info and my info.

It was pretty painless and straight forward and we both thought we were following the Federal rules. He charged me $25.

This seems a very good solution to me.

My FFL works out of his home and has very reasonable transfer fees. I asked him if he would ship for me occasionally. He hemmed and hawed a bit, and finally said if it was very occasional, yes. I can see how it would take up his time, etc., and be something he is not keen on. But I bet if I did all the scut work, as described by walnut red, he'd go for it...

Also, lookin at the UPS site, while they start out stating a non FFL cannot ship by UPS,

..Shipments containing Firearm Products are accepted for transportation only from shippers who are federally licensed and have an approved UPS agreement for the transportation of Firearm Products...

they later add some limited wiggle room,

...Approved shippers can provide a shipping label that complies with UPS’s requirements for the shipment of Firearm Products to customers who need to ship Firearm Products back to the approved shipper (or to another address as agreed upon between UPS and the approved shipper). Such packaged, labeled shipments can be tendered to UPS at a UPS Customer Center, through one of UPS’s Scheduled Pickup services, or through a UPS On-Call Pickup® request...

https://www.ups.com/us/en/support/s...egulated-items/prohibited-items/firearms.page

 

[Bald1]

Last time I shipped a handgun through a local FFL it was pretty simple. I took the revolver, packaging and receiving FFL license to my local dealer. He checked the serial number then entered it into his bound book, he then noted in his bound book that the pistol had been removed from inventory and made a copy of the receiving FFL for his records.

I then sealed up the package and took it down to the local PO and I paid for shipping and insurance. The label I had printed up showed the local dealers address as the return address but inside the package was a copy of the auction receipt showing the buyers info and my info.

It was pretty painless and straight forward and we both thought we were following the Federal rules. He charged me $25.

Once ffl enters that gun in his books he should be the only one mailing it.

 

[ladder13]

Interesting……C&R 03 is a licensed collector.


“UPS accepts packages containing Firearm Products for shipment only as a contractual service and only from Shippers who are licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code) to authorized recipients, as outlined in the approved UPS agreement for the transportation of Firearm Products”

 

[walnutred]

Once ffl enters that gun in his books he should be the only one mailing it.

So, only the person whose name is on the FFL can touch the package once it's entered into the books? What make you think that? What about the dealers employees, whose name is not on the FFL? Could they touch the package? What if he had said: You're driving by the PO on your way home, I'll give you $5 to drop off all my mail, including this package?

The firearm was entered into his bound book with documentation for the receiving FFL. It could be traced from his shop to the receiving FFL. I understand that being in NY you have to be a little more paranoid but here in the flyover states I think we met both the letter and intent of Federal law. If I lived in NY, NJ, IL or Cali I'd probably feel different also because of State interpretations.

 

[paplinker]

So, only the person whose name is on the FFL can touch the package once it's entered into the books? What make you think that? What about the dealers employees, whose name is not on the FFL? Could they touch the package? What if he had said: You're driving by the PO on your way home, I'll give you $5 to drop off all my mail, including this package?

The firearm was entered into his bound book with documentation for the receiving FFL. It could be traced from his shop to the receiving FFL. I understand that being in NY you have to be a little more paranoid but here in the flyover states I think we met both the letter and intent of Federal law. If I lived in NY, NJ, IL or Cali I'd probably feel different also because of State interpretations.

I take it as once its entered in the books the ffl has official possession of it. Handing it over to anyone not affiliated with the business could become problematic.

I once consigned a gun at my local gun show. I still owned it but had to pay 7 bucks to log it in. Gun didn't sell and I had to pay 7 bucks again to officially get my own gun back.

Didn't mind but it was a learning curve understanding how FFLs need to have a precise written custody trail. I don't blame them.

 

[Yendor357]

Do you think UPS knows what in every package?

You think I don’t know what company policy is?

I just saying, Theoretically, it could happen.

 

[444 Magnum]

Ship my Gun .com

shipmygun.com has an agreement with UPS to allow individuals to drop off/ship firearms using their label. Very reasonably priced. Only caveat is that you must drop off at a customer service center, not a UPS store or drop off location. The customer service centers are not in every town.

2nd day air for pistols, ground for long guns.

 

[Onomea]

For those with experience with shipmygun, please tell us how you like the service and what it costs.

 

[ladder13]

For those with experience with shipmygun, please tell us how you like the service and what it costs.

Gun Shipping Create Shipment

I have not used them. I tried once but the receiving FFL was not on their list and had no interest in being on it.

You enter a zip code, after answering a few questions, choose a Preferred dealer and get a quote, it’s pretty simple.

Pay and they send you a label to affix to the package.

“Our FFL list above allows customers to see what dealer licenses we already have on file in the area they need to ship a firearm. Preferred Dealers are listed in green and have agreed to accept all incoming ATF approved firearms transfers from ShipMyGun.com customers. When choosing a Preferred Dealer from our list, you do not need to contact the dealer to request approval of your firearm transfer.

If you choose a dealer from our list which is not currently listed as Preferred, we will be unable to process your shipment until we are able to contact the dealer and request their approval of the firearm transfer. To avoid delays, please either choose a Preferred Dealer from our list, or ask the dealer to Contact Us to become a Preferred Dealer.

If you would like to ship your firearm to a FFL dealer which does not currently appear on our list, please contact the dealer and ask them to send us a copy of their FFL license via fax 800-804-5569 or Electronically.

ShipMyGun.com services includes only the shipping of firearms to transferring FFL dealers nationwide. The actual firearm transfer fees charged by each FFL dealer are negotiated between the dealer and the firearm buyer or transferee. ShipMygun.com has no involvement in the FFL firearm transfer process or the associated fees.”

 

[Bald1]

So, only the person whose name is on the FFL can touch the package once it's entered into the books? What make you think that? What about the dealers employees, whose name is not on the FFL? Could they touch the package? What if he had said: You're driving by the PO on your way home, I'll give you $5 to drop off all my mail, including this package?

The firearm was entered into his bound book with documentation for the receiving FFL. It could be traced from his shop to the receiving FFL. I understand that being in NY you have to be a little more paranoid but here in the flyover states I think we met both the letter and intent of Federal law. If I lived in NY, NJ, IL or Cali I'd probably feel different also because of State interpretations.

When it goes in book. He is responsible for it. If you are in certain states you can no longer posses it. You relinquished ownership. The point is if it does not reach its destination or you decide to commit a crime with it, he is responsible. He is taking a chance by allowing someone else to transport it and posses it. FFL employees are listed as such. Not on actual FFL COPY but they are certified to handle transactions.

 

[NewLiberty]

As an FFL, I shipped several hundred handguns via USPS last year.

I had two that had issues in transit that I had to report issues with the shipments to USPS customer service based on tracking info. Once those customer service requests were opened and it was known that firearms were in the shipments, a lot of extra eyes were put on figuring out what was going on with those shipments. Thankfully, both shipments eventually found their way to their proper destinations.

I had a UPS shipment to me get lost for a couple of days, and similar results once they figured out what the contents were.

Aside from it being illegal for non-FFLs to ship handguns via USPS, you will also have zero insurance protection on the shipment if there are issues.

I have an admitted bias, but I would just find a FFL that would charge a reasonable fee for shipping it.