Shockwave & Tac 14 Hard Wood
- Thread starter wood714
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jw mathews
Member
The two items discussed in this thread are legal under FEDERAL law; they are classed as "other" on Page 2 of Form 4473. BUT potential buyers should check their STATE LAW FIREARM DFFINTIONS. My state law has NO provision for "other" firearms, and defines a shotgun as having a shoulder stock.. As an FFL, I transferred one of each to different clients last year & they completes state handgun purchase application forms as well as the 4473s. I also added a note to local law enforcement on the state forms to explain the nature of the firearms & never received a squawk of any kind. If posters can use the Internet to read this forum, they can certainly look up their state laws online & get their answers.
Also, where did one poster get the idea that Remington shotguns have forged receivers? They stopped making pump shotguns that way around 1948-'50, when the 870 first appeared, followed by the 58 & 1100 semiautos a few years later. The later designs were an improvement over the previous forged guns, with things like twin slide bars instead of only one on the pump guns, but Remington went to machined aluminum receivers to lower production costs. They've sold a few million 870s & the model is still going strong--has anyone heard of one ever wearing out?
I personally like the top tang safety on the Mossberg, but I don't know as I'd want either of those things for myself. I like the idea of a regular stock, but I can see the advantage of a 20-gauge version of these two "shorties."
Also, where did one poster get the idea that Remington shotguns have forged receivers? They stopped making pump shotguns that way around 1948-'50, when the 870 first appeared, followed by the 58 & 1100 semiautos a few years later. The later designs were an improvement over the previous forged guns, with things like twin slide bars instead of only one on the pump guns, but Remington went to machined aluminum receivers to lower production costs. They've sold a few million 870s & the model is still going strong--has anyone heard of one ever wearing out?
I personally like the top tang safety on the Mossberg, but I don't know as I'd want either of those things for myself. I like the idea of a regular stock, but I can see the advantage of a 20-gauge version of these two "shorties."
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Think a lot happens to be due to Gabe, and not the actual company...
I had a vent rib barrel that came from them... host barrel (Chinese) had the extractor cut positioned off. Emailed them, sent pictures, and they took care of it. Tried to make it work first, then did it on a new barrel. A lot of people automatically think that they are all in stock products... but for something like a barrel, where you pick different features... it is made to order.
Shy of that, everything else I got from them was spot on. I keep an eye on them, because they really are pushing the TAC-14 away from the hip-fire crowd and into something useful.
I must say, you’ve reached true tactical commando status with that Suarez stock. Honestly though what else can this gun be used for, besides fun at the range and being home defense guns? Like when would one need to tactically deploy that short range weapon with a folding stock?
First off... brace, not stock. One is legal in my state, the other is not (even if you get the stamp... SBS written in 2C:39 as a third degree crime). The “firearm” with brace is approved per NJSP letter, which specifically says that Federal law must be respected for those “firearms.”
Second, just because you don’t see a use for it... doesn’t mean there isn’t one. Remington is selling braced versions of the TAC-14, so there is obviously a demand. If there isn’t a reason for it (or a weapon like it), has no one ever gone for a SBS stamp? Guess you never got behind a 14” shotgun before. How about a vehicle gun? I personally don’t see a need for a laser on one of these firearms... does that give me the right to call you out on it? And if I did, I’d actually give reasons (respectful) instead of calling you a “tactical commando.” For example, these firearms might be viewed as “short range” weapons (from your quoted post), but you can load slugs in them. Change your sights (makes it easier), you can make hits well past 25 yards if you learn your holds (since he was brought up, Gabe Suarez has video of him connecting at 100 yards consistently). Not to mention, there have been people taking these firearms to trap ranges likely since the Shockwave’s release... not going to win the round, but people do make hits with them.
And third, if I did only what people on the internet approved of, my firearm collection would be noticeably smaller. Until someone starts supplying the funds for my own hobby... I’ll decide on what I will buy. [emoji106]
My TAC-14 has a few different setups. I have that brace, but also a stippled OEM grip. Time and place for each, and I actually have different sling mounts for both. I wasn’t a fan of the standard barrel/bead, so bought the vent rib barrel (most of my time behind a shotgun was an 11-87 with a vent rib barrel). However, I also picked up a Remington rifle sight barrel... as it brings the sight plane up over bead sights. Eventually, the entire setup will be going to Robar for NP3 Plus.
In short, I posted those pictures up as it was both related to the original topic, as well as have an example of two orders from Suarez that I didn’t have a nightmare over (not a fan of Gabe as I’m definitely on opposite side of a few topics, but if he puts something out that I like/want, it isn’t a reason not to buy it). There was a guy on AR15.com that got a crappy rifle sighted barrel from Suarez, which had gaps between the barrel and soldered on rifle sights (never brought it up to them, which I’d rather give them the chance to fix... if not, then badmouth them). That was the reason why I went with the Remington one, even though they are lower. That nixed the original idea about doing a second TAC-14 with an RMR/cowitnessed sights... saving me a good amount of money.
wood714, was going to add to my other post... but got caught up with things today. In regards to the Mossberg safety, I wouldn’t go with a brace. Same reason why I would go with a traditional pistol grip on any Mossberg; makes the safety harder to use. I’m a big Remington fan, and with the safety position, a lot easier to use with that style of grip. If I got a Shockwave, I’d leave the OEM grip on... or if I end up in a state where I can SBS it, put on a traditional stock. But after the quality issues with the JIC2 500 that I had beforehand, I rather stick with Remington and have it refinished. Night and day difference in barrel quality... and even if Remington QC isn’t like it was, you don’t see the brass threads of a bead sight protruding into the inside of Remington barrels.
First off... brace, not stock. One is legal in my state, the other is not (even if you get the stamp... SBS written in 2C:39 as a third degree crime). The “firearm” with brace is approved per NJSP letter, which specifically says that Federal law must be respected for those “firearms.”
Second, just because you don’t see a use for it... doesn’t mean there isn’t one. Remington is selling braced versions of the TAC-14, so there is obviously a demand. If there isn’t a reason for it (or a weapon like it), has no one ever gone for a SBS stamp? Guess you never got behind a 14” shotgun before. How about a vehicle gun? I personally don’t see a need for a laser on one of these firearms... does that give me the right to call you out on it? And if I did, I’d actually give reasons (respectful) instead of calling you a “tactical commando.” For example, these firearms might be viewed as “short range” weapons (from your quoted post), but you can load slugs in them. Change your sights (makes it easier), you can make hits well past 25 yards if you learn your holds (since he was brought up, Gabe Suarez has video of him connecting at 100 yards consistently). Not to mention, there have been people taking these firearms to trap ranges likely since the Shockwave’s release... not going to win the round, but people do make hits with them.
And third, if I did only what people on the internet approved of, my firearm collection would be noticeably smaller. Until someone starts supplying the funds for my own hobby... I’ll decide on what I will buy. [emoji106]
My TAC-14 has a few different setups. I have that brace, but also a stippled OEM grip. Time and place for each, and I actually have different sling mounts for both. I wasn’t a fan of the standard barrel/bead, so bought the vent rib barrel (most of my time behind a shotgun was an 11-87 with a vent rib barrel). However, I also picked up a Remington rifle sight barrel... as it brings the sight plane up over bead sights. Eventually, the entire setup will be going to Robar for NP3 Plus.
In short, I posted those pictures up as it was both related to the original topic, as well as have an example of two orders from Suarez that I didn’t have a nightmare over (not a fan of Gabe as I’m definitely on opposite side of a few topics, but if he puts something out that I like/want, it isn’t a reason not to buy it). There was a guy on AR15.com that got a crappy rifle sighted barrel from Suarez, which had gaps between the barrel and soldered on rifle sights (never brought it up to them, which I’d rather give them the chance to fix... if not, then badmouth them). That was the reason why I went with the Remington one, even though they are lower. That nixed the original idea about doing a second TAC-14 with an RMR/cowitnessed sights... saving me a good amount of money.
wood714, was going to add to my other post... but got caught up with things today. In regards to the Mossberg safety, I wouldn’t go with a brace. Same reason why I would go with a traditional pistol grip on any Mossberg; makes the safety harder to use. I’m a big Remington fan, and with the safety position, a lot easier to use with that style of grip. If I got a Shockwave, I’d leave the OEM grip on... or if I end up in a state where I can SBS it, put on a traditional stock. But after the quality issues with the JIC2 500 that I had beforehand, I rather stick with Remington and have it refinished. Night and day difference in barrel quality... and even if Remington QC isn’t like it was, you don’t see the brass threads of a bead sight protruding into the inside of Remington barrels.
I’m sorry I didn’t mean to offend... it’s just I had a real hard time trying to think of a real-world example of when that folding stock would be needed on a short range weapon (-100 yds). I’m biased towards an SBR. I think Gabe does have some good ideas about the gun, as do you. Also I think your gun looks cool, and I’m glad your exercising your right to bear arms brother
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Finally got a chance to put a few rounds thru it today.
Put 25 rounds of 7 1/2 shot thru it... safety bit me a little on the second round. I only put 5 rounds of 00 thru it and called it a day. Wasn't bad at all with the shot, but the 00 kicked like a mule.
I ordered a case of Low Recoil Fiocchi 00 to try in it.
Called the ATF yesterday for some fingerprint cards, still on the fence, but I'll probably have it stamped as a SBS.
Put 25 rounds of 7 1/2 shot thru it... safety bit me a little on the second round. I only put 5 rounds of 00 thru it and called it a day. Wasn't bad at all with the shot, but the 00 kicked like a mule.
I ordered a case of Low Recoil Fiocchi 00 to try in it.
Called the ATF yesterday for some fingerprint cards, still on the fence, but I'll probably have it stamped as a SBS.
jw mathews; Also said:
jw mathews
Member
Alwslate--
Perhaps I misspoke in my above comment about 870 receivers. Not trying to knock the gun in any way as I know Remington has made over 11 Million of them! I've been looking through some old gun annuals & Internet articles but all I've found is that the receivers are "machined steel." I have not found anything stating how the basic steel shape was made. I do know that the 870 utilizes many stamped parts, much moreso than the previous Model 31 (which I have).
Perhaps I misspoke in my above comment about 870 receivers. Not trying to knock the gun in any way as I know Remington has made over 11 Million of them! I've been looking through some old gun annuals & Internet articles but all I've found is that the receivers are "machined steel." I have not found anything stating how the basic steel shape was made. I do know that the 870 utilizes many stamped parts, much moreso than the previous Model 31 (which I have).
jw I have five 870s, two 1100s and two 31s. All have machined steel
receivers. All you have to do is field strip any of them and then remove
the trigger group and you can easily see the obvious. Early 31s have a
steel trigger housing but the 1941 version has an alloy trigger housing
like the 870. 870s have more stamped parts than the 31 like the slide
action bars and shell stops but the main difference is that the 31 bolt
is tilted up at the rear by the action bar and locks into a machined
recess in the roof of the receiver while the 870 has a locking lug
that tilts up at the front to engage a recess in the barrel extension.
The 31 is similar to the Winchester mod 12 in that both have chamber
rings or bushings the bolt has to headspace against so both require much
more machining than the 870 so are more expensive to make and so
are "better" in the minds of the owners.
receivers. All you have to do is field strip any of them and then remove
the trigger group and you can easily see the obvious. Early 31s have a
steel trigger housing but the 1941 version has an alloy trigger housing
like the 870. 870s have more stamped parts than the 31 like the slide
action bars and shell stops but the main difference is that the 31 bolt
is tilted up at the rear by the action bar and locks into a machined
recess in the roof of the receiver while the 870 has a locking lug
that tilts up at the front to engage a recess in the barrel extension.
The 31 is similar to the Winchester mod 12 in that both have chamber
rings or bushings the bolt has to headspace against so both require much
more machining than the 870 so are more expensive to make and so
are "better" in the minds of the owners.
jw mathews
Member
alwslate--
Thanks for yr comments. I phoned Remington the other day & was told that the 870 receivers are now aluminum, machined from bar stock, so I have corrected my post above to reflect that info.
I have a Model 31 made in 1947 that I've owned since 1950. It is a 26" skeet gun with a vent rib. Ca 1958 I sent it to Remington & had them fit a 32" full choke plain bbl. They sent the skeet bbl back to me & shipped the gun to Herter's in MN to fit a vent rib. IIrc the plain bbl cost $30 & the Remington vent rib cost $60 and the Herter's rib cost $15, so even w/ shipping I saved a bit of money. I would agree that the 870 is a better design as it allows interchangeable barrels w/o special fitting, stc.
Thanks for yr comments. I phoned Remington the other day & was told that the 870 receivers are now aluminum, machined from bar stock, so I have corrected my post above to reflect that info.
I have a Model 31 made in 1947 that I've owned since 1950. It is a 26" skeet gun with a vent rib. Ca 1958 I sent it to Remington & had them fit a 32" full choke plain bbl. They sent the skeet bbl back to me & shipped the gun to Herter's in MN to fit a vent rib. IIrc the plain bbl cost $30 & the Remington vent rib cost $60 and the Herter's rib cost $15, so even w/ shipping I saved a bit of money. I would agree that the 870 is a better design as it allows interchangeable barrels w/o special fitting, stc.
I bought a Remington 870 Gatekeeper II, a year and a half ago. The receiver, bolt, magazine tube and of course, barrel are steel. That is unless they make aluminum that a magnet sticks to.
I'm not sure who told you that, but unless they started making a lightweight model that I don't know about, they were wrong. Both of my TAC-14's have steel receivers.
Abbynormal
Member
My best buddy is into shorty shotties. He has a Mossberg Shockwave, a Remmy 870 Tac-14 shorty with detatchable mag and now a 870+1 14" bbl w/wood. He just paid $400 for it.
My preference would be the 870-14+1 w/wood (aka: Witness Protection 870) and spend the $200 to SBS and add a Remy factory folding stock, side saddle 6 round ammo holder and add SureFire 870 forend.
Added 10 days later:
My buddy and I took his Shockwave, 870 detachable mag and the Witness Protection type 14"+1 out this afternoon. The 14"+1 is by far the best. Best action, accuracy and function. My Buddy is going to sell off the Remy 870 detachable mag shorty (can't find mags easily and they are very expensive).
He being left eye dominant prefers the Mossy safety, but everything else he likes the Remy better. Just to note, he has a Mossy 590 18", a Mossy semi 18" and the Mossy Shockwave. He also has an 18" 870P but prefers the Mossy except in the shorty class.
I'm all in on the Remy 870 14" +1 myself and now find that I gotta get one myself.
My preference would be the 870-14+1 w/wood (aka: Witness Protection 870) and spend the $200 to SBS and add a Remy factory folding stock, side saddle 6 round ammo holder and add SureFire 870 forend.
Added 10 days later:
My buddy and I took his Shockwave, 870 detachable mag and the Witness Protection type 14"+1 out this afternoon. The 14"+1 is by far the best. Best action, accuracy and function. My Buddy is going to sell off the Remy 870 detachable mag shorty (can't find mags easily and they are very expensive).
He being left eye dominant prefers the Mossy safety, but everything else he likes the Remy better. Just to note, he has a Mossy 590 18", a Mossy semi 18" and the Mossy Shockwave. He also has an 18" 870P but prefers the Mossy except in the shorty class.
I'm all in on the Remy 870 14" +1 myself and now find that I gotta get one myself.
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