Shooting .45 Super in Model 625?

[GIrine45]

Just wondering, has anyone done it or heard of it. The .45 Super case is exactly the same dimension as regular .45acp and the .45 Super generates higher pressure but if the metal in the 625 is the same as the 629, can it be done safely?

Being able to do it raises the level of usefulness of the 625 for hunting bigger game.

Just wondering.....

 

[Dennis The B]

The metal in the two frames may be the same, but they're not heat treated the same. The Model 29/629 has always had a different heat treating process for the higher-pressure rounds.

If S&W says fire only .45ACP in the revolver, I, for one, will take them at their word.

 

[TAROMAN]

And, all things being equal, a cylinder bored for .452 has less metal left than the one bored for .429 (disregarding case wall thickness, of course).
Agree, its best to stick with the cartridge for which S&W designed it.

 

[colt_saa]

I have put many tens of thousands of 45 SUPER rounds down range though my 625 over the past few decades. It is a FANTASTIC Pin cartridge.

For S&W to say "YES go and use it" they would need to make sure their butts are covered, they would have to do testing. This costs them time and money yet generates ZERO revenue

Of course S&W is going to say NO. NO is easy. They have little or no knowledge of the cartridge and have to do ZERO testing in order to say NO. It costs them ZERO cash out of pocket to say NO

It is easy in this litigious world that we live in to say NO

You realize that in today's world S&W would also tell Elmer Keith NO if he asked permission for his HOT 44 Specials.

The developer of the cartridge uses it in his 625s. He should be fairly familiar with how the cartridge interacts with the firearm

 

[jaymoore]

I just got a spare .44 Mag cylinder with big chamfers on the front end of the throats. Was considering reaming it out to .45 Winchester Mag!

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Yes you can...but should you?

I shoot 45 Super power loads in my 325NG in either S-L 45 Super cases, or S-L 45 Auto Rim cases. The 45 Super loads are quit a bit below 44 Mag pressure, 40K cup, vs. Super at 26-29K cup. The S-L 45 Super cases have a little less capacity than the AR's.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/287513-45acp-45-super-45ar-case-capacities.html

Being able to do it raises the level of usefulness of the 625 for hunting bigger game.

The bump in power to 45 Super is noticeable! (Love that Power Pistol powder !!)


45 Super in 325NG (don't forget to swap the rubber grips back on before)

 

[BobR1]

I had my 625 rechambered to 460 Rowland a long time ago. So it shoots 45acp, 45acp+P, 45 Super as well as 460 Rolland. Clark would not rechamber the 625 to 460 Rolland if it was not safe to do.

Something not to do is load Super loads in standard brass.
In Starline Brand the light stuff is 45acp, +P brass is a little heavier made, and the Super and 460 Rowland are the same brass case as 45 Win Mag only shorter.

I have never fired a great deal of 460 Rowland or 45 Super ammunition through my 625, but I see no reason not to. AS was siad above it is still not all that hot as compaired to a 44 Magnum. I believe Super is loaded from 22,000 to 28,000. The newer Buffalo Bore is on the lower pressure end.

CAUTION: The safety issue with 45 Super ammunition has never been with modern revolvers. It is with getting the hot 45 Super ammunition into a 1911 not set up to handle the higher pressure loads. I am not sure of all the work done to a 1911 to shoot 45 Super without damaging it by Ace, but heavier recoil springs ( 20 - 32 Pound) and a shock buff, special recoil guide, different firing pin retainer, heavier firing pin spring, some times heavier magazine springs, and ramped barrels are listed as modifications to handle the 45 Super. Be sure to keep your Super ammunition away from a non-modified 1911. This is the reason for the 460 Rowland case being slightly longer than a 45 acp/Super, it will not chamber in a 1911 not set up to shoot it. A safer way to go if you also own a 1911 the ammunition could get in. This is why my cylinder has been rechambered for 460 Rowland, I also own a custom 1911 Colt I do not plan to damage.

Bob

 

[Arisin Wind]

The 460 Roland is a 40,000 psi cartridge. How is it the 625 can safely handle that?

 

[357Ruger]

The 460 Roland is a 40,000 psi cartridge. How is it the 625 can safely handle that?

I was wondering the same.

 

[GIrine45]

Thanks to all you gents for your input. A lot of good thoughts and info here. I saw where Clark was converting 625s and I think even 25s to 460 Rowland.

I have an Ace Custom Springfield 1911 in 45 Super so have lots of brass to play with and like a wheelgun sometimes over the auto.

Off to the range!!

 

[DR505]

Guys, it is a .460 ROWLAND cartridge.

460Rowland.com

 

[BLUEDOT37]

The 460 Rowland is a 40,000 psi cartridge.

Hodgdon & Clark Customs both show the max. at 40K cup. I don't believe there's a SAAMI standard for either 45 Super or 460 Rowland.

 

[Arisin Wind]

Hodgdon & Clark Customs both show the max. at 40K cup. I don't believe there's a SAAMI standard for either 45 Super or 460 Rowland.

Still, how is it the Model 25's and 625's are handling these pressures safely?

If this is the case then we should be able to shoot Ruger only 45 Colt loads out of the 25's and 625's without worry.

 

[BobR1]

My thoughts on a 625 handling the hot loads.

If you shoot a steady diet of full house 44 Magnum through your 629, it is going so show wear a lot sooner than a 629 fed a steady diet of 44 Special ammunition.

The same will be true with a 625. One poster above said he had fired thousands of rounds of 45 Super through his 625 Pin Gun. My guess is his Pin Load is shooting a heavy bullet, and he is probably not hot rodding it to the firewall. The current Buffalo Bore loading is listed at 22K. A load in the 22K or a little higher range will probably not speed up wear to an unexceptable level.

The thinking behind the 460 Rowland with a longer case than 45acp/45 Super, was the Rowland case would not chamber in a non-modified 1911. Shooting hot Super ammunition in a non-modified 1911 will result in sheared locking lugs, peened frame, cracked this or that, etc.

I do not load ANY Super ammunition at all. I load all my Super loads in 460 Rowland cases so I do not get a hot load in my 1911 by accident. I have never took the time to really work with the Rowland. I am sure the loads I have loaded so far have not been anywhere close to 40K.

Keep in mind you have the ability to load Mild to Wild when reloading. I have a 480 Ruger, I have never fired a factory load in it. I have plinking loads I have reloaded with Unique and a 400 grain cast. They make a pleasant load for general field use. I have a shotshell load that I am very impressed with for snakes. My hunting load is around 150 fps under a maximum load. My hunting load is as warm as I really enjoy shooting. It killed my 10 point buck last season stone dead, just like it did the 8 point the year before. It does not need loaded to the Firewall for deer.

I am getting ready to start a batch of 45acp reloads for my brother and myself an ICORE Limited load. (625 ONLY) They will be a 230 round nose lead bullet loaded under the maximum listed for a standard 45acp. I like probably 95% who post here do not hotrod my reloads most of the time. A nice soft shooting 230 plinking load will take over steel, and kill the NRA D1 tombstone targets stone dead. A few Super loads will probably not hurt a 625. I have no need for a 40K Full House 460 Rowland load in my 625. I have Magnum revolvers when something needs more gusto.

Just my 2 cents.

Bob

 

[colt_saa]

One poster above said he had fired thousands of rounds of 45 Super through his 625 Pin Gun. My guess is his Pin Load is shooting a heavy bullet, and he is probably not hot rodding it to the firewall.
Bob

230 grain LFN projectile clocking at 1020 FPS.

I do shoot 230 JHPs that clock at over 1100 FPS from my long slides, but no need for expensive JHPs on pins. Never clocked that load from the 4" 625

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Still, how is it the Model 25's and 625's are handling these pressures safely?

I'm not disputing the question, concerning using the 460 Rowland in the 625, just clarifing cup instead of psi max.

If this is the case then we should be able to shoot Ruger only 45 Colt loads out of the 25's and 625's without worry.

625 was the gun the OP was asking about (someone mentioned 25's. I've read they, at least the older ones, have weaker frames even for moderate Colt loads) using 45 Supers in. Ruger only 45 Colt loads are usually between 25K & 30K psi, depending on the source, which is similar to the range of the 45 Super.

 

[Arisin Wind]

625 was the gun the OP was asking about (someone mentioned 25's. I've read they, at least the older ones, have weaker frames even for moderate Colt loads) using 45 Supers in. Ruger only 45 Colt loads are usually between 25K & 30K psi, depending on the source, which is similar to the range of the 45 Super.

This is what i was thinking as well. It seems to me if you're shooting 45 Super and 460 Rowland out of your 625 or 25 (you're right - let's use the more modern guns) you could shoot Ruger only loads out them.

True, you'd increase the wear rate but I doubt the gun would blow up.

 

[Redlegvzv]

The metal in the two frames may be the same, but they're not heat treated the same. The Model 29/629 has always had a different heat treating process for the higher-pressure rounds.

If S&W says fire only .45ACP in the revolver, I, for one, will take them at their word.

+1 and +2. I would not put that junk through my gun.