Shooting at Colorado Walmart

[nachogrande]

ONLY 1 THING TO SAY

Condolences to the victims & families. Luckily it didn't turn into a circular firing squad with good guys & police shooting other good guys. It's been a concern of mine & exactly the place I thought of. Can't say I would have done differently, I hope I wouldn't draw without a target, but who knows. Did it slow the investigation? I'm sure it did. I can't imagine being a LEO rolling up on an active shooting scene where "everyone" is holding a gun.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

I don't carry a gun when I go to WalMart. I carry two guns.

 

[Spawndn72]

The article doesn't say where the armed citizens were in relation to the shooter, but since we are speculating here, isn't it possible that he quit shooting and left when someone drew their gun?

 

[GaryS]

Carry. All. The. Time.

Unless you're going somewhere where firearms are not allowed. In that case I think carefully whether or not I need to go there.

I'm not buying the line about the concealed carriers slowing down the investigation.

Here's an excerpt from a letter I wrote to one of the guys I worked with in the Denver metro:

"That Walmart is the one I always went to after I went to Sportsmans Warehouse on the drive
back to Brighton. They usually had better prices on .22's than the warehouse.

The 3 rules I got out of the Denver Post article were:

1. ALWAYS CARRY. Put it on top of your wallet and keys so you pick it up first when you
get ready to leave the house.

2. The police are always there after the fact so you have to fall back to rule 1.

3. Constantly scan your surroundings for threats because of rule 2.(Cops being there after the fact)

I saw Thornton PD whined the concealed carriers slowed down the investigation. I'm sure they were
protecting themselves and not looking for the BG to engage him. That was the Police's job.
( And they get a D- for being there after the fact .)

This is not a put down of law enforcement. They are just stretched way too thin. As a result, you can't
carry a cop in your back pocket.

Here's the Vid we saw this week at work, It's made by the City of Houston:

RUN. HIDE. FIGHT.(R) Surviving an Active Shooter Event - English - YouTube

Now that I'm in the great white north, I carry when we go out to the Mall or grocery shopping.
Not much else. I might have to reconsider that. "

End of excerpt

 

[Rastoff]

I'd guess my reaction might depend on proximity.

Proximity is always important, but, even though I'm slow, I can cross a Walmart in less than 30 seconds. I don't have time to wait to see IF there's a threat. If I hear shots...well I'll explain in a minute...

First thing for me, is gather my wife behind me.

I pray that never happens here.

I also pray it never happens anywhere, but this is why we should always carry.

I like your concept of protecting your family first, but I'd like to make a modification:

1. Look for an exit and with my family, head toward it. I will put myself between potential fire and my family if possible.
2. If I can't get out, present to the ready and get behind cover.
3. Have my wife/son/someone who it not me, call 911. As the armed individual, I need to be concentrated on the events at hand. I can't afford to have my attention divided between the threat and the phone.

Most decent people want to stop the assault in progress. That's great, but you can't do it if you're not safe yourself. So, just like when the oxygen masks drop in the plane, make yourself safe first, then help others.

Here's what Rob Pincus said about it:

I advise people to keep their gun holstered, with their hand on it in what we teach as the "staged" position, when responding to any situation like this when they are not in the immediate presence of the threat... and never to extend the gun from a Compressed Ready Position until they are ready to shoot.
You don't want to look like a threat to other good guys...

Do you agree with him?

 

[serger]

I have been discussing my e-mail with my friend in the Metro.

He said people he's talked to made the comment they wouldn't
engage a bad guy due to liability concerns because CO doesn't
have a "Stand Your Ground" statute to act as umbrella protection
in the event you shot a bad guy. Even though you were not
charged by the government, the bad guys significant others took
you to court and sued you was his concern.

The general feeling being, "If I'm not in the line of fire, I won't
shoot even though I might pull my gun."

 

[nachogrande]

I'm not buying the line about the concealed carriers slowing down the investigation.

OK, you show up to multiple people holding weapons in the open, (NOT CONCEALED). Kinda hard to call them CC's when the guns ARE NOT CONCEALED.
Just how are the LEO'S supposed to tell the good guys from the bad Guys? Cuz I said "I'm a good guy" or wearing a CC badge don't cut it in my book. I'm not trying to fault anyone. I'm pretty sure those CC's all had good intentions & I may have done the very same thing, it's just kinda obvious & easy to see how confusing & hard tell the good guys from the bad it may have been. Gotta go to the instant replay for the official ruling. I'll go along with Pincus.

 

[GaryS]

Do you really think that the CC folks were standing there gun in hand when the police arrived? From reading the article, it appeared that the police were commenting on the time they had to spend searching through the video to screen out the non bad guys from the bad guys.

OK, you show up to multiple people holding weapons in the open, (NOT CONCEALED). Kinda hard to call them CC's when the guns ARE NOT CONCEALED.
Just how are the LEO'S supposed to tell the good guys from the bad Guys? Cuz I said "I'm a good guy" or wearing a CC badge don't cut it in my book. I'm not trying to fault anyone. I'm pretty sure those CC's all had good intentions & I may have done the very same thing, it's just kinda obvious & easy to see how confusing & hard tell the good guys from the bad it may have been. Gotta go to the instant replay for the official ruling. I'll go along with Pincus.

 

[Ray1970]

The Walmart in question is a couple of miles from my house. I never go there as the one or two times I did the class of people there struck me as sub par. When I heard about the shooting I can honestly say it didn’t totally surprise me.

The latest media rumors are that the shooter is racist and chose his victims based on their ethnicity. Not sure if there’s any truth to that or if it’s just the usual media garbage.

At least it seems your local Walmart has better video surveillance than a certain Las Vegas casino.

 

[fiasconva]

Most of us carry for situations just like this. I'd have drawn, put the little lady behind me and looked for a way out of the store. It may have been the only chance I had to draw. Survival of both of us is the first priority.

 

[CH4]

"a trigger happy LEO sees me with a gun..."

Yup just dying to plug someone so they can carve a notch in their gun I guess.

Or use a soldering iron to melt a notch in their plastic gun.

 

[Rastoff]

OK, you show up to multiple people holding weapons in the open, (NOT CONCEALED). Kinda hard to call them CC's when the guns ARE NOT CONCEALED.
Just how are the LEO'S supposed to tell the good guys from the bad Guys?

Obviously you didn't read the article. That's not how it happened at all. They say they were slowed down because of the people they saw on the surveillance video.

How are they supposed to tell? By the way they stand and act. Did they present after the initial shooting? Then they're probably a good guy.

 

[SATX]

Seriously, Walmart stores are not that huge. Do you think cops will leave their weapons holstered when entering the front doors because the shooter was reportedly shooting in the rear? Come on, everybody wants to go home alive.

 

[tlawler]

Do you really think that the CC folks were standing there gun in hand when the police arrived? From reading the article, it appeared that the police were commenting on the time they had to spend searching through the video to screen out the non bad guys from the bad guys.

That was my take on it too. I’m sure all of the concealed weapons were safely holstered by the time the PD got on scene. All the more reason to keep your weapon at the “staged” position until a threat is imminent.

 

[Whitwabit]

This same scenario was discussed in the conceal carry class I took .. and I have discussed it with my wife who I would likely be with ..

Shots fired in a large building like that could echo and you might not know exactly where the shot(s) are coming from for a few seconds or longer ..

I wouldn't draw but would have my hand on the weapon and look for and seek cover with my wife behind looking behind us and move toward an exit I have already identified ..

I have already check where doors leading outside and to storerooms are in the local stores we shop in .. doing this in advance gives you a huge advantage over not knowing in an emergency !! I do that to any building I enter .. knowing where exits are is vital !!

 

[Spokes]

Some people just believe everything that they read in the papers or see in the driveby media is absolutely true..Not true folks...
They are against CC for citizens and they will do anything to hurt us ...
Wake up!
Read again what Gary S. writes and let it sink in. He knows what he says..

 

[nachogrande]

WALMARTS SMALL???

Seriously, Walmart stores are not that huge. Do you think cops will leave their weapons holstered when entering the front doors because the shooter was reportedly shooting in the rear? Come on, everybody wants to go home alive.

It's been 35 years since I lived in Westminster & downtown Denver, so I wasn't in that particular WM. The WM's here are about the biggest stores around, especially the super centers. YES I read the linked article, & NO I don't believe everything I read. Too many unanswered questions, updates I haven't read likely exist. IDK about the police response time, but I have to believe a unit (at least) showed up before everyone was cleared from the bldg. & if any CC's fired any shots, etc. Time will reveal more I'm sure.

 

[Kifaru]

I think the investigators are looking for excuses and assigning blame as to why it took so long to locate the suspect. The armed citizen argument seems more political than practical, a red herring.

Regardless, and I hate to sound callous, but if I'm with my family and shooting starts, I'm getting them to the nearest exit. I will probably move my cover garment so that I can get a hand on my revolver, but it stays in the holster. I figure a drawn gun will make me a target--a target to LEOs, a target to the shooter(s), a target to other CCW holders, a target to whomever; it doesn't matter. And if I become a target while trying to get my family to safety, that makes my family the backstop. That's not going to happen. Sorry.

I would hate to see innocent people hurt or killed, but they had the same chance to spend the not inconsiderable time, effort, and money that I have to get the equipment and training to protect themselves, and they chose not to. I'm not a cop. I don't have a radio or backup or the city's budget at my disposal for my defense in court. Now if I were alone, it might be a different story. Maybe. If I saw the situation unfold from the start. If I had clear lanes of fire and a solid backstop. If the gunman posed an immediate and clear threat. That's a lot of ifs.

I live about 25 minutes from that Walmart, but I've never been there. It's in a bit of a sketchy neighborhood. In fact, I avoid ANY Walmart after dark. Sketchy neighborhood, sketchy time of day, sketchy store, nope, I wouldn't have had any reason to have been there when the shooting started. I carry to avoid trouble, not find it.

 

[CA Escapee]

What I took away from the story was that the police had to determine whether anyone with a gun drawn had fired and hit any of the three victims.

I think with all the cameras in that store, and in any Walmart for that matter, they'd have to watch the video taken from several cameras. With the situation I described above it would take even more time.

At one point in time that night the KWGN, channel 2 website was reporting there were reports of two shooters.

I drive past that store on my way home from work and have thought about stopping in to pick up some things. Due to the fact that I can't carry anything more than pepper spray at work, I pass the store until the next day when I am carrying more than pepper spray.

Bill

 

[arjay]

Armed Walmart shoppers slowed police in shooting investigation