Shooting Big Dogs With Handgun Ammo

[Texas Star]

This topic has been quite productive and informing.

Please continue posting.

This may be the best info source yet on the subject.

I was quite surprised that one poster has had penetration problems with .40 Gold Dots on both dogs and humans. I'd have thought that the 180 grain GD would be a good load. Mr. Sinko, were those Speer factory loads? Will you describe the hit(s) on human foes? Placement, mass of the individual, etc.? Thanks.

T-Star

 

[canoe on the yukon]

In the 70's,I once was forced to shoot a dog which I estimate weighed about 50 lbs at most.

The gun was my constant carry piece,a two inch J frame Smith.The load was the "MAGNIFICENT" 158 gr LSWCHP Plus P which everyone gets goose bumps over.

At about twenty feet,I emptied the cylinder into his chest.One of the five rounds hit a main artery,a strong stream of blood sprayed out a couple of feet or more,he slumped down,rolled over and died very quickly.What if I hadn't hit the main artery?I'll never know.

But that memory reinforces the absolute disdain I have for the 38 special cartridge.Even with the main artery hit plus 4 more,if he had been a man with a gun,I have no doubt that I'd be dead....Sorry for the rant.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

About a year before I lived with my brother in Kasilof Alaska, (about 15 miles south of Kenai)
he had a good friend who killed a very aggressive and mean german shepard. The man (who I met while living there) was friends with the owners of the dog, and was about the only person outside of the dog owners family that could get near the dog. The dog had bitten at least one kid at the bus stop, and was regularly terrorizing the kids when going to or from school. This friend of my brother finally had enough, and went over to the home where the dog lived and got the dog. Since the dog knew him, he willingly jumped up into the guys truck. This man drove the dog some 5 or so miles to an old gravel pit, where he got out and tried to get the dog to follow him. Apparently the dog knew something wasn't right, because he wouldn't get out of the truck. This guy left his door open, went around to the other side and opened the passenger door, trying still to get the dog to come out. About that time the dog decided to become aggressive with this guy. He pulled his .357 mag and pumped all 6 rounds into the dog right there on the seat of his truck. (I saw the truck when I lived there, it was pretty beat up anyway).
He drug the dead dogs carcass off the seat, and tossed him down into a pit where they had dug out gravel at some point in the past. He went and told the owners when they got home-"I just killed your dog, since you knew he was biting and wouldn't do anything about it. If this ends our friendship, so be it". The next night, the dogs owner called him up and said "You better get over here, there's something you've got to see". The man went over, and there standing in the yard, all bloody and full of holes, was the german shepard. The dog had somehow found his way back home, despite 6 holes in his chest area. The owners took the dog into town, (either Soldotna or Kenai, I don't recall) to a vets, and had him patched up, which I might add, cost a huge sum of money even bck in the early '80's. Shortly after these people got to bring home the dog, which had been at the vets for quite some time, they heard a loud blast late at night, and went out to the yard area. They found their now expensive and even meaner dog, minus his head and a .308 Winchester case lying next to him. Up in Alaska, everyone knows everyone else within miles. I was told that no one, was taking any chances that the shepard would get a chance to kill someones kid at the bus stop anymore, especially after being shot 6 times already. If anyone reading this is from that area, I'm sure you know whose dog it was and who the guy was that did the six shots. Probably who used the .308 too.

 

[b79holmes]

Originally posted by pred:
SNIP...
A moment later, My beagle was fine and unhurt and the owner of the 3 shepherds said that this would not have happened if MY dog was better trained,
Peter.

So it is not my imagination and bad dogs are always accompanied by irresponsible owners.

Where we spend summer weekends and vacations there is a large (50+ acre) town conservation land that has become an unofficial dog walking park. On weekend mornings everyone brings their dog for a big dog play-date. I have a German Shorthair that needs to run so this is perfect. I often avoid the crowd but can take her on a 20 minute off lease walk and let her go. She is wearing a shock collar so is always under my control. Often you meet families either just walking or walking their dog and I don't want her jumping on anyone or knocking a small child down.

So we are walking down a trail and meet a young woman being dragged by a very large husky. She asks me to leash my dog to help her out!! I just call my dog and we keep walking away. I meet this same woman again a few days later with a spouse or boyfriend...still being dragged down the trail.

This winter for fun I subscribe to the local weekly paper, and low and behold a husky has been banned from this park for killing another dog. And this is the second dog this particular husky has attacked!

I do not know if it is the same dog, but is part of my reasoning for asking about CCW ammo in the other section.

Bill

 

[animalmother]

Lots of good stories and info in this page of the thread. I'm sticking with my 10mm Auto for chimps, dogs, and home defense.

 

[PRE64270]

SHOT placement is always king.... I once shot a Malamute (Alaskan Sled Dog) through both hips with a 38 158 gr lswc and the dog survived and was just fine after a day. I have killed dogs with one shot properly placed with 40, 44, 357, 22 Long Rifle and various rifles from 223 up to 270.

Ranchers usually despise dogs in pastures and one day while living on a ranch in Colorado the boss pulls up in the truck and asks if I have my "Dog Gun" with me, which he knew I always had a scoped high power rifle on hand. He had witnessed my shooting skills, which were much better than his, and he wanted me to kill some dogs in a pasture for him. I had my pet 270 that day and jumped in the truck and he drove me to a pasture where we got got in a good ambush position where these dogs were messing around. The dogs had no idea we were there, about a 150 yards out, and I leaned over the hood and saw a golden opportunity when one of the dogs was trotting in front of the other and a light went on in my head for me to hold the shot until two were lined up. There were 3 dogs total if I remember right so I wanted the best odds of killing them all as running dogs are pretty hard to hit as they can flat out fly after the shootin' starts. Well as a I paused a moment one of them sat down in front of another dog and they were a couple of feet apart. As I put the scope on the sitting dog the cross hairs were perfectly lined up with the one behind him so I touched off a 140 grain ballistic tip and needless to say they both dropped at the shot and the second dog had a huge hole in the chest from the bullet having already expanded after striking the first one. The other dog left the county at the shot and got away, but two of them didn't.

I have shot more coyotes than I can remember with handguns and rifles and I can share the same observation that if you don't hit them right they won't die. One that sticks out in my mind is a coyote I shot with a friends 9mm and he only had three rounds in it. (Truck gun and the only gun we had) I hit that Coyote with the first shot that and it was too far back. I missed the other 2 shots as he was running about 80 yards away and the gun was empty. I asked for more ammo and he had nothing else with him soooo I started after the Coyote on foot and chased him for a LONG time and could only get about 20 yards from him and could not run him down to kill him so I left him for the buzzards as i'm sure he died later. It was not the 9mm's fault, it was poor bullet placement.

I have also chased down coyotes that have their guts blown out with high power rifles (usually a 22-250) and they can really keep going until you shoot them with a proper shoulder, neck head shot and and these are only 30-35 pound animals on average.

So, I'm not too worried about what I hit em with, it's where.

Happy Hunting

 

[whelenshooter]

I too have seen coyotes running off with their innards hanging out after being hit with a rifle. It amazes me how such a small animal can take such a beating and keep going!

Another thing that amazes me is how poorly 9mm FMJ works as a stopping round. I don't think it will stop a charging bull butterfly. When I lived in Idaho I often shot Columbia ground squirrels for shooting practice, and for fun. I often shot them with a handgun, because it was such great practice. I had, and still have, a Ruger speed-6 9mm revolver that uses moon clips. It's quite accurate. Columbia ground squirrels, which are about the size of a medium Gray squirrel, when hit dead center with a 9mm FMJ would go down, then get up and run off on their tiptoes and make it down their holes. Sure they died shortly after, but that isn't the point. Hitting a Columbia ground squirrel with a 9mm handgun round is like hitting a person with a 20mm cannon. When hit with a 9mm FMJ they didn't stay down when hit unless you hit them in the head or broke both shoulders, which would take out their lungs. Hit amidships with a .45 ACP with FMJ ammunition, however, was another matter. They never got up again. 38 Special round nose was like 9mm FMJ, it didn't work that well either. 38 Special SWC or wadcutter ammunition, however, worked quite well. The flat point makes all the difference.

 

[Shooter10]

This has little to add to the very thorough discussion of the various rounds and their abilities, but it also is humorous.
My Son had just purchased a new motorcycle, and within hours, he has dumped it, some cosmetic damage to the bike, and some new areas of pavement rash on him, but he told me of a large black dog which had rushed him up the street, and caused him to wreck. At first I thought he was attempting to blame his misfortune on other than his own actions, but later began to believe him. After a while, I went into the bathroom, finished emptying a small plastic bottle of vitalis hair oil, rinsed out the bottle, and refilled it with ammonia. Put the small 3 ounce bottle in my jacket pocket, and took his bike to check out his claim. Sure enough, a very large dog almost able to look me eye to eye ran at me, and I gave him a very good shot of the ammonia, right in his wide open mouth, eyes, nostrils, at a distance of 3 or 4 feet. Immediate end of attack, and I returned back home, refilled the little bottle, told the Son to carry it with him.
While we are talking about this, the door bell rang, and the dog's owner is there extremely upset concerning his dog, was going to "whip my ass", and other not pleasant actions. I reached over, took the bottle of amonia, and gave him a shot of it, and he fell off of my stoop, but did make it home. Neither he or the dog was ever a problem after that, as the dog would run and hide in the back yard when he heard a motorcycle comming after that. There was a "lease law" in affect, but he had chosen to ignore it, with both he and his dog learning to respect other's rights to use the public streets.
BTW, I would of had severe legal problems if I had of shot the dog.
Several years later, one Sunday morning before dayligt,I went down to my paper box to get my Sunday paper, and was braced and menanced by two large dogs. I had a .22 mag derringer in my pocket, and drew, shot th elargest from a distance of maybe 4 feet, and he didn't make any more moves. The other one ran off, and lights began to come on around the area. Next door neighbor came out all upset, saw a dead dog laying in my drive way, with a stream of blood running from the single entrance hole in the skull, and backed off. Still have no idea who owned that absolutely beutifal collie, but it now was dead. Owners have more responsibility to control their pets, but too many do not do so.

 

[Texas Star]

Shooter 10-

I agree that dogs in violation of the leash law
that menace people deserve what they get. And the owners should be charged in court.

Letting dangerous dogs out should be seen as reckless endangerment of the public.

What became of the dead collie?
T-Star

 

[CarlP2]

Originally posted by Texas Star:
Shooter 10-

I agree that dogs in violation of the leash law
that menace people deserve what they get. And the owners should be charged in court.

Letting dangerous dogs out should be seen as reckless endangerment of the public.

What became of the dead collie?
T-Star

It's probably still dead...

 

[whelenshooter]

Originally posted by CarlP2:

Originally posted by Texas Star:
Shooter 10-

I agree that dogs in violation of the leash law
that menace people deserve what they get. And the owners should be charged in court.

Letting dangerous dogs out should be seen as reckless endangerment of the public.

What became of the dead collie?
T-Star

It's probably still dead...

CarlP2, That cracks me up!


It is 8 hours later and I'm still laughing! "It's probably still dead"... jeez!