Puller
Member
Mainly 1911 only guys repeating what they've seen on the internet and not understanding what they're regurgitating.
Shooting commemoratives
- Thread starter Faulkner
- Start date
Mainly 1911 only guys repeating what they've seen on the internet and not understanding what they're regurgitating.
Ole Bernard had to sell a lot of those commemoratives to pay the $43M that thug was awarded after he was paralyzed by being shot!
sipowicz
Member
I found this LAPD 200th anniversary of Los Angeles in a local pawn shop back when you can buy a gun in West Hollywood. It was missing the challenge coin and the box was a bit dinged up. So on went some pachmayrs. and the case lives on my dresser full of knives, speed strips and such. Kind of glad it wasn't perfect or I might not have enjoyed it so much. On a side note, why it's an LAPD commemorative is beyond me since they issued 15s back then.
Attachments
kbm6893
Member
A friend of mine is a retired FBI agent, and he bought two of the Model 27-3, with sequential serial numbers. He bought them both for his two kids. Never been fired and cylinder never even cracked open. No turn line. His kids couldn't care less about them, he told me.
I discovered years ago that Winchester Commemorative Model 94s had a lot more value as shooters than they'd ever have as collectibles. At best most seem to just hold their value against inflation if you look at what they sold for when new versus what they sell for now. And…what the sell for now is a *lot* less than a new Miroku made Winchester in a similar configuration. So you not only save money but you also get the original quarter cock hammer safety (albeit a safety that isn't drop safe) that is both iconic and unlikely to ever be manufactured again, short of a future plague virus with a 100% mortality rate that only kills attorneys.
I also found that commemoratives also offer the ability to shoot less common calibers like .38-55.
——
They come in four flavors:
1) The Winchester commemoratives that they pumped out in huge numbers to try to boost sales like the 1966 Canadian Centennial rifles and carbines that were produced in numbers around 100,000, the 1968 Buffalo Bill (112,000), the 1969 Golden Spike (70,000), the 1969 Teddy Roosevelt (52,000), and the 1970 Cowboy (27,000) and Lonestar (38,000). These all followed in the wake of the disastrous 1964 changes and were an effort to both make additional sales and use surplus production capacity.
2) The less massively over produced but still too many to be collectible like the Oliver F Winchester, Chief Crazy Horse, Legendary Frontiersman, Legendary Lawman, US Bicentennial, and Wells Fargo, all limited to *just* 19,999 examples. Still no where near low enough to be "collectible".
Below is a Legendary Frontiersman. Normal tarnish subdues the silver plated receiver to a nice color, the wood and engraving is excellent and it's not overly blingy if you can live with the medallion in the stock. It's the best/most affordable 38-55 rifle option out there and shoots about 2 MOA. I bought one for $1000 and then picked up a spare for with no box $800.
3) The actual "might be collectible some day" commemoratives made in numbers of 1000 or less. And quite frankly they are still ignored by vintage Winchester collectors who look at anything made after WWII as sketchy and certainly won't stoop so low as to look at anything made after 1963.
4) The numerous small production run "commemoratives" made to order for small towns as they celebrated their centennials or sesquicentennials. These are the best of the bunch shooter wise as they are XTR grade carbines where the only bling is usually gold leaf filled engraved dates and the name of the town on the barrel. It's bar the none the cheapest way to buy an XTR grade Model 94. Who cares if you've never even heard of Onida South Dakota (although I grew up there, so if you have one, I'm interested).
——-
There is also the Model 94 Classic, which wasn't a commemorative at all, but rather Winchester's scheme to sell a non commemorative version of the Centennial rifle, with similar engraving, very nice wood, no medallion and a gold plated loading gate. Still, they only made about 40,000 of them, less than a number of commemoratives so it is often treated as one.
I bought one for field use when I don't want to take my very good condition 1926 Winchester 94 rifle in the field.
When I bought it Makey's staff was horrified that I planned to D&T a "commemorative" for a tang sight as it would kill the collector value. I didn't tell them about my tang sight equipped LF in .38-55. I did however point out that this was a rifle they were selling to me for half what a new Miroku made Winchester in the same caliber and rifle configuration sells for. I also pointed out that while in very good to excellent condition, it wasn't pristine by any means, and Winchester made over 40,000 of them, so I wasn't real worried about collector value.
But supply chain issues being what they are I couldn't get the tang sight I wanted so I put a Williams receiver sight on it. It works fine, but it still might get a tang sight.
Here's the 1926 Model 94 rifle it's replacing in the field:
I'm a big fan of the vintage Marbles Tang Sight, much nicer than the new one, although not quite as practical adjustment wise.
———
Interestingly enough a year or so later, commemorative Model 94s have almost disappeared from the shops that used to have them. Mackey's Landing used to have dozens and now has a comparative handful. Last time I was there, one their staff (a new staff person I had not met before in my decade or so of going there) commented they were almost all being bought by people looking for classic design Winchesters to shoot, rather than collect. I tried to act surprised, but I'm not.
The secret is out. Miroku Winchesters (and now even the new Ruger made Marlins) are massively overpriced and someone wanting a good shooting lever action at a decent price and or without a tang or cross bolt safety is going to be severely tempted by a commemorative Winchester, and the less blingy examples fill the bill quite well.
Here's a link to a page listing the number of Winchester lever gun commemoratives made during the Winchester commemorative orgy:
Winchester Commemoratives | Winchester Collector
I also found that commemoratives also offer the ability to shoot less common calibers like .38-55.
——
They come in four flavors:
1) The Winchester commemoratives that they pumped out in huge numbers to try to boost sales like the 1966 Canadian Centennial rifles and carbines that were produced in numbers around 100,000, the 1968 Buffalo Bill (112,000), the 1969 Golden Spike (70,000), the 1969 Teddy Roosevelt (52,000), and the 1970 Cowboy (27,000) and Lonestar (38,000). These all followed in the wake of the disastrous 1964 changes and were an effort to both make additional sales and use surplus production capacity.
2) The less massively over produced but still too many to be collectible like the Oliver F Winchester, Chief Crazy Horse, Legendary Frontiersman, Legendary Lawman, US Bicentennial, and Wells Fargo, all limited to *just* 19,999 examples. Still no where near low enough to be "collectible".
Below is a Legendary Frontiersman. Normal tarnish subdues the silver plated receiver to a nice color, the wood and engraving is excellent and it's not overly blingy if you can live with the medallion in the stock. It's the best/most affordable 38-55 rifle option out there and shoots about 2 MOA. I bought one for $1000 and then picked up a spare for with no box $800.
3) The actual "might be collectible some day" commemoratives made in numbers of 1000 or less. And quite frankly they are still ignored by vintage Winchester collectors who look at anything made after WWII as sketchy and certainly won't stoop so low as to look at anything made after 1963.
4) The numerous small production run "commemoratives" made to order for small towns as they celebrated their centennials or sesquicentennials. These are the best of the bunch shooter wise as they are XTR grade carbines where the only bling is usually gold leaf filled engraved dates and the name of the town on the barrel. It's bar the none the cheapest way to buy an XTR grade Model 94. Who cares if you've never even heard of Onida South Dakota (although I grew up there, so if you have one, I'm interested).
——-
There is also the Model 94 Classic, which wasn't a commemorative at all, but rather Winchester's scheme to sell a non commemorative version of the Centennial rifle, with similar engraving, very nice wood, no medallion and a gold plated loading gate. Still, they only made about 40,000 of them, less than a number of commemoratives so it is often treated as one.
I bought one for field use when I don't want to take my very good condition 1926 Winchester 94 rifle in the field.
When I bought it Makey's staff was horrified that I planned to D&T a "commemorative" for a tang sight as it would kill the collector value. I didn't tell them about my tang sight equipped LF in .38-55. I did however point out that this was a rifle they were selling to me for half what a new Miroku made Winchester in the same caliber and rifle configuration sells for. I also pointed out that while in very good to excellent condition, it wasn't pristine by any means, and Winchester made over 40,000 of them, so I wasn't real worried about collector value.
But supply chain issues being what they are I couldn't get the tang sight I wanted so I put a Williams receiver sight on it. It works fine, but it still might get a tang sight.
Here's the 1926 Model 94 rifle it's replacing in the field:
I'm a big fan of the vintage Marbles Tang Sight, much nicer than the new one, although not quite as practical adjustment wise.
———
Interestingly enough a year or so later, commemorative Model 94s have almost disappeared from the shops that used to have them. Mackey's Landing used to have dozens and now has a comparative handful. Last time I was there, one their staff (a new staff person I had not met before in my decade or so of going there) commented they were almost all being bought by people looking for classic design Winchesters to shoot, rather than collect. I tried to act surprised, but I'm not.
The secret is out. Miroku Winchesters (and now even the new Ruger made Marlins) are massively overpriced and someone wanting a good shooting lever action at a decent price and or without a tang or cross bolt safety is going to be severely tempted by a commemorative Winchester, and the less blingy examples fill the bill quite well.
Here's a link to a page listing the number of Winchester lever gun commemoratives made during the Winchester commemorative orgy:
Winchester Commemoratives | Winchester Collector
I say shoot it. To me commemorative models were a gimmick to drive up sales. I think most are so over done that they're ugly.
THE PILGRIM
Member
Back when I was working the Gunshows a Dude comes up with Hi Standard Commemorative Derringers. In nice fitted cases.
He announces how much they are worth and wants to trade for some of our handguns.
He was upset when we told him we did not concur with his values.
He got more upset confronting obviously poorly informed so called gun traders.
So we finally asked him, where did you get that number?
He replied, from the guy I bought them from!
He announces how much they are worth and wants to trade for some of our handguns.
He was upset when we told him we did not concur with his values.
He got more upset confronting obviously poorly informed so called gun traders.
So we finally asked him, where did you get that number?
He replied, from the guy I bought them from!
The guy who came up with the logo on the 544 should horsewhipped.
Echo40
Member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2017
- Messages
- 4,064
- Reaction score
- 7,904
I know this is an older thread, but someone liked my post in it, which reminded me of it's existence, and well, I think it's time for a revival...
I'm surprised that I never posted this at the time either, guess it just slipped my mind, but here's another fine commemorative edition firearm. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture of my own in its original configuration, so this is a stock photo, but...
The Ruger SR1911 NRA Commemorative Edition.
I bought this as a gift for my brother back in 2021 and this picture really doesn't do it justice, but like I said, I don't have any pics of it in it's stock configuration. (My brother swapped out the grips as soon as it was presented to him.)
It's much brighter/shinier in person, with the spots that appear white in the picture such as the trigger actually being stainless steel, the slide having more of a satin finish, and the frame being a vibrant shade of crimson. I really wish I had a pic of it, but I never bothered to take one, as it was promptly passed on to my brother, so all the pics of it I have were taken after the fact with different grips.
Needless to say, my brother has fired it, even carried it for a time, so it's no longer in pristine condition, and therefore even if I asked my brother if he could send me a pic of it with the original grips on, it wouldn't look the same.
Heck, just recently he expressed regret that he had accidentally put a scratch on the frame during reassembly, so it now features your garden variety "idiot scratch" with the bright crimson cerakote broken up by a stylish streak of silver where the scratch has revealed the stainless steel beneath.
I'm surprised that I never posted this at the time either, guess it just slipped my mind, but here's another fine commemorative edition firearm. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture of my own in its original configuration, so this is a stock photo, but...
The Ruger SR1911 NRA Commemorative Edition.
I bought this as a gift for my brother back in 2021 and this picture really doesn't do it justice, but like I said, I don't have any pics of it in it's stock configuration. (My brother swapped out the grips as soon as it was presented to him.)
It's much brighter/shinier in person, with the spots that appear white in the picture such as the trigger actually being stainless steel, the slide having more of a satin finish, and the frame being a vibrant shade of crimson. I really wish I had a pic of it, but I never bothered to take one, as it was promptly passed on to my brother, so all the pics of it I have were taken after the fact with different grips.
Needless to say, my brother has fired it, even carried it for a time, so it's no longer in pristine condition, and therefore even if I asked my brother if he could send me a pic of it with the original grips on, it wouldn't look the same.
Heck, just recently he expressed regret that he had accidentally put a scratch on the frame during reassembly, so it now features your garden variety "idiot scratch" with the bright crimson cerakote broken up by a stylish streak of silver where the scratch has revealed the stainless steel beneath.
Attachments
Echo40
Member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2017
- Messages
- 4,064
- Reaction score
- 7,904
Oh, and as a basis of comparison, here's the Ruger SR1911 NRA Commemorative Edition after the grips were swapped out...
And yes, it's very Christmasy with the crimson frame and emerald grips, in fact I have since used this picture as the template for a Christmas Card.
And yes, it's very Christmasy with the crimson frame and emerald grips, in fact I have since used this picture as the template for a Christmas Card.
Last edited:
Echo40
Member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2017
- Messages
- 4,064
- Reaction score
- 7,904
Guns are meant to be shot, there's no sense whatsoever in purchasing a firearm which you have no intention of ever shooting.
I can understand and appreciate the desire to keep a special firearm in good cosmetic condition, but if that comes at the expense of never actually shooting it, then why bother buying it at all? Might as well just buy a fancy nonfunctional replica.
I can understand and appreciate the desire to keep a special firearm in good cosmetic condition, but if that comes at the expense of never actually shooting it, then why bother buying it at all? Might as well just buy a fancy nonfunctional replica.
smoothshooter
Member
They have not appreciated in value significantly more than standard models like everyone thought they would.
Shoot it if you like.
Winchester simply made too many of them.
Shoot it if you like.
Winchester simply made too many of them.
Last edited:
Yep, bought S&W Texas Ranger Commemorative w/knife in presentation box in '73 $350 when $$$ were tight. 50yrs never fired just fondled. Wish had enjoyed shooting. Kinda sad looking back.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
I've had commemorative S&Ws, never shot one. Had several Win 94s and Zane Grey 336. All down the road NIB. The only commemorative I own is Colt SAA , West Virginia 1863-1963 51/2" .45Colt in case unfired. I actually was looking for the 43/4" plain jane SAA. This one was in storage and has a couple spots of light pitting. I didn't care for the price, I've already shot it and will serve until I get a deal on the shorter one.
I looked at one of those in a LGS in Fayetteville, NC in 1975. I had enough cash in my pocket to buy it but I was a lot more frugal in those days (and I had never purchased a firearm before). Later on I regretted not buying it (even though I wouldn't have shot it). I learned a lesson, if they have it in stock and you think you'll ever want it, buy it.
The only commemorative firearm I ever bought were the Colt 125th Anniversary SAA.
They were out in 1962 I believe and Colt made around 7400 of them.
Tarted up with gold plated grip strap and trigger guard & cylinder pin they came in a wooden case along with a Colt 125th yr medallion on a chain.
The 24k soft goldplating easily wore off even from just handling. Any handling marks at all relegated these to 'shooters' and the Colt shooters didn't especially care for them either for their non-traditional looks
An all blue finish with the snappy gold plated parts. Grips were wood.
The guns were sometimes to be found for sale slightly used. Missing was the wooden box and medallion.
They were begging for a new owner and often at a very good price.
These were fine 2nd Gen Colt SAA's in 45Colt caliber w/ 7 1/2" bbl.
So I would buy them and strip the gold plating remaining along with the bluing.
Give it a new polishing job, but the polish from Colt at the time was very nice as it was. Didn't need much.
Then the guns made excellent engraving projects sometimes plus a custom rebbl&cylinder to another caliber.
Ivory was cheap at the time for grips and no hassel.
A re-case color job from Case Color Co in Ohio was something like $125.
Don's case color work looked for all the world just like Colt's,,because he did most all of Colt's 2nd generation work.
They were out in 1962 I believe and Colt made around 7400 of them.
Tarted up with gold plated grip strap and trigger guard & cylinder pin they came in a wooden case along with a Colt 125th yr medallion on a chain.
The 24k soft goldplating easily wore off even from just handling. Any handling marks at all relegated these to 'shooters' and the Colt shooters didn't especially care for them either for their non-traditional looks
An all blue finish with the snappy gold plated parts. Grips were wood.
The guns were sometimes to be found for sale slightly used. Missing was the wooden box and medallion.
They were begging for a new owner and often at a very good price.
These were fine 2nd Gen Colt SAA's in 45Colt caliber w/ 7 1/2" bbl.
So I would buy them and strip the gold plating remaining along with the bluing.
Give it a new polishing job, but the polish from Colt at the time was very nice as it was. Didn't need much.
Then the guns made excellent engraving projects sometimes plus a custom rebbl&cylinder to another caliber.
Ivory was cheap at the time for grips and no hassel.
A re-case color job from Case Color Co in Ohio was something like $125.
Don's case color work looked for all the world just like Colt's,,because he did most all of Colt's 2nd generation work.
If not increasing in value for new in box condition I vote for shooting them! Again wish they would have been based on the "1873" but realize the calibers would have had to limited to 38-40 or 44-40 45 Colt perhaps with that Toggle -Link action. Modern steels today would have helped with strength I would think. Just my opinion.
