Shooting old-vintage ammo

[paplinker]

Two scenarios I am unsure of.

First
I am considering shooting some pre war 38-44 and 38 special ammo from the 30s-40s.

Should I expect any issues or anything that I should look out for?

I have no idea of the history of them or how they were stored before I got them. They appear original and most are full boxes.

I currently do not know how to identify reloads but have looked at some trying to see a difference. I have no interest in reloaded ammo.

Second
I have some 9mm Hornady critical defense rounds I keep at camp for security. Think I want to use it up for practice and replace with new.
It is roughly ten years old and sees 0 degree conditions in winter as the heat is off. Curious on thoughts on this also.

I know guys using war surplus stuff on rifle loads but not pistol.

 

[weatherby]

First.....dibbs on some of those full boxes.
The 38-44 ones especially!!!!!!

If the primers are doomed your probably GTG as original.

 

[RGPM1A]

About 10 or 15 years ago I remember shooting some Winchester 38 special Superspeed (?) ammo my deceased grandfather had and it shot fine but a little dirty. My uncle who had it said it was from before WWII. I also recently shot a bunch of 45ACP military ball ammo from 1944 and it was fine (on the hot side) but also very dirty. It had weird copper colored dome shaped primers. I think it had Winchester head stamps.

So to answer your question I would shoot it or sell it as a collectable.

 

[paplinker]

First.....dibbs on some of those full boxes.
The 38-44 ones especially!!!!!!

If the primers are doomed your probably GTG as original.

LOL THE 38-44 I have a box with a maybe 10 rounds left. The full ones will not be used.

Most of the 38 special I bought through the years came from buying a group of ammo on GB or from gun shows selling at 10-15 a box a couple years back. Mostly mid forties stuff.
Some of it is sharp shoulder so I am curious about these older loads.

 

[weatherby]

LOL
I thought we were friends
You just made my 38-44 very sad.

 

[ReloadforFun]

You may want to check with the manufacturer to see if the primers are corrosive. Remington, as I recall, was the first with non-corrosive priming in the 1920's, but I don't know when other ammo makers changed. The US military didn't completely leave corrosive primers until the early 1950's.

Not a problem for shooting but cleaning the gun may need attending to.

 

[glowe]

I recall my father cleaning bores with water before using Hoppe's. As noted above, US Military ammunition used fulminate of mercury into the 1950s and other countries used it much longer. Commercial ammo used this compound and potassium chloride for some time into the Twentieth Century. Fulminate of mercury did not age well with smokeless powder, and would produce many misfires if kept over the years. Most, but not all commercial ammunition changed their priming compound before WWII, some as early as the 1920s.

Problem with mercuric and potassium chloride primers was that they caused aggressive corrosion if not cleaned with water to dissolve the salts immediately after firing. It is said that the reason why so many 22 rimfire guns have ruined bores was a result of leaving their barrels dirty and corrosive residue eating up the rifling.

For those reasons, I do not shoot old ammo because there is no way of knowing which priming compound was used in the manufacture.

 

[RGPM1A]

I recall my father cleaning bores with water before using Hoppe's. As noted above, US Military ammunition used fulminate of mercury into the 1950s and other countries used it much longer. Commercial ammo used this compound and potassium chloride for some time into the Twentieth Century. Fulminate of mercury did not age well with smokeless powder, and would produce many misfires if kept over the years. Most, but not all commercial ammunition changed their priming compound before WWII, some as early as the 1920s.

Problem with mercuric and potassium chloride primers was that they caused aggressive corrosion if not cleaned with water to dissolve the salts immediately after firing. It is said that the reason why so many 22 rimfire guns have ruined bores was a result of leaving their barrels dirty and corrosive residue eating up the rifling.

For those reasons, I do not shoot old ammo because there is no way of knowing which priming compound was used in the manufacture.

It was Potassium Chlorate not Chloride.

 

[ReloadforFun]

Fulminate of mercury priming ruins brass casings. Potassium chlorate priming was used since the early 1900's or a bit earlier, finally being replaced by lead styphnate beginning commercially in the 1920's.

The last US military use of potassium chlorate priming was phased out in the early 1950's.

 

[max]

My guess is the 9mm will be fine. The US Army leaves ammo out in all kinds of weather and any of it I ever fired always worked just fine.

 

[30-30remchester]

Being an antique ammo collector, I just cringe when people shoot vintage ammo at tin cans or paper. In these times of ammo shortages, I still see little reason to shoot at tin cans. We shoot because we like to. Seldom necessary. Grew up with many old timers that bought one box of 22 rimfire every decade whether they need it or not. I grew up when military ammo was cheap and easy to find. Now many calibers are hard to find. If the OP has an original box of 38/44's and shoot dirt clods with them this would be a shame in my book. Come to my house and I will give you some 38's to shoot. I actually hunt with vintage ammo, what it was actually manufactured to do, but that is one to five rounds a year. I shot a bison in 2003 and used an original Sharps 50/70. I used one of my few original rounds of ammo loaded in the 1880's. Felt it only right. Was hard to leave the empty on the ground but I left it there for others to find in the future and wonder what and when.

 

[dingomann]

I have shot lots of old ammo over the years. Watch for hangfires, misfires and squibs that stick a bullet halfway through the barrel. Your ammo should all be noncorrosive but clean like it is corrosive. I have shot a lot of corrosive ammo and you just have to take a few extra pains with it. A few weeks ago I shot 50 rounds of Remington Kleanbore 30 Mauser from the 1940s and it worked fine. Averaged 1205 fps. Some claim that improper storage can cause excess pressures but I have never seen this happen; it always goes the other way.

 

[Rifleman200-10X]

Well, there's no real danger if you're careful. It's just impossible for old ammo to get more "powerful" than when it was when new. The worst that can happen is just a click, no bang, when you pull the trigger, OR a squib round that lodges a bullet in the bore. Be very careful if a round sounds or feels different from the rest, STOP and check the bore before firing another round! The only other concern would be if it's corrosive ammo. If you're not certain, simply clean the bore with hot soapy water first, then proceed cleaning with solvent and oil as usual. I've fired literally thousands of rounds of old surplus ammo, both rifle and pistol, and the vast majority performed just like the day it was made.

 

[paplinker]

Being an antique ammo collector, I just cringe when people shoot vintage ammo at tin cans or paper. In these times of ammo shortages, I still see little reason to shoot at tin cans. We shoot because we like to. Seldom necessary. Grew up with many old timers that bought one box of 22 rimfire every decade whether they need it or not. I grew up when military ammo was cheap and easy to find. Now many calibers are hard to find. If the OP has an original box of 38/44's and shoot dirt clods with them this would be a shame in my book. Come to my house and I will give you some 38's to shoot. I actually hunt with vintage ammo, what it was actually manufactured to do, but that is one to five rounds a year. I shot a bison in 2003 and used an original Sharps 50/70. I used one of my few original rounds of ammo loaded in the 1880's. Felt it only right. Was hard to leave the empty on the ground but I left it there for others to find in the future and wonder what and when.

I get your point on the vintage stuff. I have a good amount of boxes that are in good condition and full that are in no danger of being used.

But I also have a box of prewar 38-44 with a bunch of empty cases and maybe 10 unused that I thing might be a candidate to be enjoyed and learn from.

I also have some boxes of 38 special that are full but the boxes are not in the best condition and are fairly easily found on the internet. Most are thrown into other lots I assume just to get rid of them.

 

[DWalt]

Fulminate of mercury priming ruins brass casings. Potassium chlorate priming was used since the early 1900s or a bit earlier, finally being replaced by lead styphnate beginning commercially in the 1920s.

The last US military use of potassium chlorate priming was phased out in the early 1950s.

Mercury Fulminate as the sensitive ingredient in small arms primer mixes did not survive the 19th century, except in some special applications. The main reason was that it had a short shelf life, especially at high storage temperatures. It was replaced with Potassium Chlorate-based compositions. It had a very long shelf life, except it was corrosive. Almost any American commercial ammo made after the 1920s will have noncorrosive priming based on Lead Styphnate. US military small arms ammunition did indeed use Chlorate primers into the early 1950s, except for .30 Carbine ammunition which was always noncorrosive.

Any gun should have its bore flushed with water (hot is better) immediately after firing corrosive ammunition. Soapy water is optional but not necessary. It dissolves the chloride salt residue from using chlorate-containing primers. Then clean the bore normally.

"Some claim that improper storage can cause excess pressures but I have never seen this happen; it always goes the other way."

Not so sure about that. I had some of my old .270 reloads (using IMR 4831 WWII surplus powder) and I had some near-blowouts with it. Later inspection showed that the propellant had deteriorated into a fine powder. I pulled all those bullets.