WILBERT
Member
Sirs! which one is the most effective in terms of self defense, balistics, range and power? Long barrel or short barrel? Many thanks!
SHORT or LONG BARREL?
- Thread starter WILBERT
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I'll refer you to a line in Bob Seger's classic beautiful loser.........
"You just can't have it all"
Ya gotta pick one or the other, but ya can't have both,
But ya can strike a happy medium. That's what makes the 4in gun so popular
"You just can't have it all"
Ya gotta pick one or the other, but ya can't have both,
But ya can strike a happy medium. That's what makes the 4in gun so popular
scooter123
Member
IMO, for defensive purposes, a short barrel is superior. I have two 4 inch revolvers, a 6 1/2 inch 610, and tommorow will pick up a 6 inch 617. In rapid fire DA drills, the gun that I can group most tightly with is my 4 inch, "tapered barrel", model 67. Second best is my 4 inch model 620. Dead last is my 610 with it long heavy full lug barrel.
As for why, it's all about Inertia. Yeah, that heavy 610 has very little muzzle rise when shooting the 40 S&W, however there is so much mass way out in front of the grip and I always overshoot the point of aim when trying to return the gun quickly on target. Group size in rapid fire with the 610 is at least double what I can do with my model 67 unless I cut my firing rate in half.
IMO, the best defensive revolver you can purchase is the 3 inch 686. The swing weight is low enough to produce nimble handling properties and the sight radius is just long enough to allow some decent accuracy when shooting sighted. No, you won't shoot a 2 inch group with it at 25 yards unless you have exceptional vision, however a 3 or 4 inch group is possible with enough practice. In addition, the 3 inch barrel is long enough to capture at least 70% of the power potential of the 357 Magnum. If you want a bit more power from a Magnum, the 686 or 620 are good second choices but they are noticeably a bit muzzle heavy and that will effect group size in rapid fire shooting.
Where the longer barrels shine is in precision shooting or hunting applications. That long sight radius makes it much easier to shoot a tight group. In addition, the long barrel will add 100-200 fps to the velocity depending on the barrel length. So, for hunting or silhouette matches, a longer barrel is a better choice.
BTW, you can have both, just purchase 2 guns.
As for why, it's all about Inertia. Yeah, that heavy 610 has very little muzzle rise when shooting the 40 S&W, however there is so much mass way out in front of the grip and I always overshoot the point of aim when trying to return the gun quickly on target. Group size in rapid fire with the 610 is at least double what I can do with my model 67 unless I cut my firing rate in half.
IMO, the best defensive revolver you can purchase is the 3 inch 686. The swing weight is low enough to produce nimble handling properties and the sight radius is just long enough to allow some decent accuracy when shooting sighted. No, you won't shoot a 2 inch group with it at 25 yards unless you have exceptional vision, however a 3 or 4 inch group is possible with enough practice. In addition, the 3 inch barrel is long enough to capture at least 70% of the power potential of the 357 Magnum. If you want a bit more power from a Magnum, the 686 or 620 are good second choices but they are noticeably a bit muzzle heavy and that will effect group size in rapid fire shooting.
Where the longer barrels shine is in precision shooting or hunting applications. That long sight radius makes it much easier to shoot a tight group. In addition, the long barrel will add 100-200 fps to the velocity depending on the barrel length. So, for hunting or silhouette matches, a longer barrel is a better choice.
BTW, you can have both, just purchase 2 guns.
davel686
Member
If I had to chose, I would go with a 4" barrel.
I have a 6",4" and 2-1/2" and the one that seems to be the most versatile is the 4".
you can carry a 4" pretty easely, you can hunt with a 4" barrel, a L frame or N frame would be the best.
I have a 6",4" and 2-1/2" and the one that seems to be the most versatile is the 4".
you can carry a 4" pretty easely, you can hunt with a 4" barrel, a L frame or N frame would be the best.
snowman
Member
Wilbert,
Not many serious gunowners here in the States can live with only one gun; does the Philippines place that restriction on you?
If it does, and if you want to use it primarily as a means of defense(and we all hope that that is never necessary), get the shorter barrel. I use no longer than than a 4" gun for that purpose, and the earlier poster's recommendation of a 3 incher is good also. Defensive scenarios almost always call for fast maneuverability; the less barrel, the more maneuverable. Also there is less chance of the criminal grabbing the barrel and turning it away, or worse.
Andy
Not many serious gunowners here in the States can live with only one gun; does the Philippines place that restriction on you?
If it does, and if you want to use it primarily as a means of defense(and we all hope that that is never necessary), get the shorter barrel. I use no longer than than a 4" gun for that purpose, and the earlier poster's recommendation of a 3 incher is good also. Defensive scenarios almost always call for fast maneuverability; the less barrel, the more maneuverable. Also there is less chance of the criminal grabbing the barrel and turning it away, or worse.
Andy
RPM2DAY
Member
"BTW, you can have both, just purchase 2 guns."
I'll add,
And get to know them (or it) well.
The one I can hit anything with is my Makarov 9X18. That's the important part.
Still practicing with my HP 4", but I'm getting there.
I'll add,
And get to know them (or it) well.
The one I can hit anything with is my Makarov 9X18. That's the important part.
Still practicing with my HP 4", but I'm getting there.
Wee Hooker
Member
The longer barrel give you better sight radius (=accuracy), more velocity,muzzle energy, slightly less felt recoil/blast and flatter trajectory. They are however harder to conceal and draw.
WFR
Member
For self defense I go with 3" K's or L's
For range shooting and hunting I vote 5" N's
For range shooting and hunting I vote 5" N's
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
Remember this: If we are talking hunting, some states have a 6" minimum! There is no doubt a 4" is easier to carry and draw, or conceal than a 6". On these common questions you cant really give good advice without knowing exactly what or how the person intends on useing the gun.
When considering the ballistics of a pistol, the length of barrel has very little to do with power/energy. The difference in velocity of a bullet fired from a 3" barrel vs. a 6" barrel is so small that other differences in the guns (such as if the short barrel has particularly tight chambers/throat/bbl.) could make the shorter-barreled gun more powerful. Someone once said a big-bore revolver with the barrel being cut back inch-by-inch loses something between 20 and 40 fps per inch. Not much difference.
As far as accuracy goes, a longer-barrel is THEORETICALLY more accurate, however, I've found that most people can shoot a 3" to 5" barrel the best. Ultra-long barrelled (longer than 7-1/2" to 8") handguns become very hard to aim with, unless you use some sort of rest. And short barrels are NOT mechanically less accurate. Put a 2" and an 8-3/8" barrelled revolverd in a machine rest and they both can be just as accurate as the other ON AVERAGE. (Again, depending on the mechanical variation of each gun - sometimes the short-barrelled gun will be more accurate, and sometimes the long-barrelled one will be.) The man who taught me about shooting shot a 2-1/2" barrelled Chief's Special at a man-sized target from 90 yards and hit it four out of five times, AT NIGHT (with the use of a Q-beam spot light).
All of these experiences have lead me to choose the following barrel lengths as ideal, based on what length barrel seems to balance out as the ideal match for the particular frame size of the S&W revolver we're talking about. (You can go about an inch either way in size and still have a handgun that looks "balanced," but go much shorter or longer, and they start to look abnormal.)
X-Frame - 7-1/2" to 8-3/8" barrel (haven't really decided on this one yet)
N-Frame - 5" barrel
L-Frame - 4" barrel
K-Frame - 3" barrel
J-Frame - 2-1/2" barrel
As far as accuracy goes, a longer-barrel is THEORETICALLY more accurate, however, I've found that most people can shoot a 3" to 5" barrel the best. Ultra-long barrelled (longer than 7-1/2" to 8") handguns become very hard to aim with, unless you use some sort of rest. And short barrels are NOT mechanically less accurate. Put a 2" and an 8-3/8" barrelled revolverd in a machine rest and they both can be just as accurate as the other ON AVERAGE. (Again, depending on the mechanical variation of each gun - sometimes the short-barrelled gun will be more accurate, and sometimes the long-barrelled one will be.) The man who taught me about shooting shot a 2-1/2" barrelled Chief's Special at a man-sized target from 90 yards and hit it four out of five times, AT NIGHT (with the use of a Q-beam spot light).
All of these experiences have lead me to choose the following barrel lengths as ideal, based on what length barrel seems to balance out as the ideal match for the particular frame size of the S&W revolver we're talking about. (You can go about an inch either way in size and still have a handgun that looks "balanced," but go much shorter or longer, and they start to look abnormal.)
X-Frame - 7-1/2" to 8-3/8" barrel (haven't really decided on this one yet)
N-Frame - 5" barrel
L-Frame - 4" barrel
K-Frame - 3" barrel
J-Frame - 2-1/2" barrel
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
One more thing. I belive elmer keith claimed he actualy did better long range shooting with a 4" .44 mag than with the longer 6 1/2" and 8 3/8" due to the shorter radius in the sights, raised a little in the shorter radius vs the longer barrels it "seems" more effective? I havent experimented with it in a long time, but when I read it and tried it back then, I noticed it too.
I like 2 to 4" guns. Lugging a 6" barreled revolver around will get old quick. Of course with the proper belt, holster, and attire it can be made more tolerable. As mentioned above, you have to find the best compromise for you. Weight and balance are just as important as bbl. length - being able to effectively point shoot with combat accuracy out to about 10 to 15 ft will tell you a lot about the 'pointabilty' of your gun. I have 2 1/2" and 3" .44s and .45 ACP revolvers and they are all effective, but a 4" gun is comfortable and points well. Here are some .44 Specials:
Yes. Very true. Longer barrels provide the opportunity to line up the sights more precisely, but most people have a hard time lining up the sights that well without a rest. I find with a 7-1/2" SAA or worse, my 9-1/2" Single Sixes, that I can NEVER get the sights lined up properly for a long enough period of time to squeeze the trigger when the sights are PERFECTLY aligned when shooting from the standing position, and therefore there is little advantage to the longer barrel. A scope, of course, will change this picture completely, but I didn't get the impression the OP was considering a scope-sighted revolver.
This question and some earlier responses actually provoked some thinking by me the other night, and I went back and thought about Elmer's preference for 4" barrels (to the point of having one of the first S&W pre-29 44 Magnums cut back to 4"). I recall he wrote in Sixguns that the 4" was the longest practical barrel for a policeman or any other person who carries a handgun on the belt who rides in a car. True enough, but I think preferred the 4" because of his stature. Look at some of the pics of Keith in his books and articles when he is standing next to other folks, and you can see he was actually pretty short. It makes PERFECT sense that a shorter fellow would prefer a barrel an inch or two shorter than normal/average, because it will balance better for them.
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