Shot my first batch of 52-2 reloads

[pmclaine]

My recipe

Mixed brass
W231 2.9 grains
Prec Delta 148 grn HBWC
Win SPP

No trimming or uniforming of cases. All rounds fed/fired without issue which is something I cant claim with the factory ammo I have fired.

My group would have been great if it was from any of my other guns but I have come to expect more from my 52-2. There was a noticeable group and the xring was gone but there were more single rounds outside the group than has occured with factory ammo.

Are expectations good that the group will tighten with another tenth of a grain or two?

I'm not shooting bullseye comp with this gun, just plinking. My ammo expectation is to make a round that works as good as I can hope for with this gun (it prefers factory) but I can still use it in my .38 revolvers for fun shooting.

 

[jepp2]

I was shooting my M52-1 yesterday with 3.0 gr. of W231 with Hornady bullets. Even at my loading I was getting jams due to the fired case not clearing the ejection port. So at least for me I am going have to up the load slightly.

I haven't shot my M52 in a long time, so I can't recall the load I used to shoot in it.

 

[shovelwrench]

How are you crimping them? Separate from seating the bullet?

Its doubtful that the group will improve by upping the velocity. What I would do is separate a hundred of the same headstamp and work with that batch for load development. Your probably at the bottom of the of velocity there so load ten at a time putting .1 grain more in every ten. Shoot each ten .rd batch from a rest (know anyone with a Ransom rest?) and use the load with the tightest group.

Sometimes you can sacrifice a little accuracy if substantially less recoil gives you more aim time....

 

[wheelgun28]

Some folks say Bullseye will give better accuracy over 231.

I have used BE in few different 52s. Some like loads bit hotter or lighter depending on the gun. Anywhere from 2.5 to 3 grain seems to work.

I was looking at the Precision Delta bullets. What kind of lube do they use? What the match lube. Are they swaged?

I have had good results with the Speer HBWC some folks really like the Remington. I am ordering 500 of the Rems to try.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I don't have a M52 but I do shoot a lot of 148gr DEWC's with W231.

My loads range between 3.2gr up to 3.4gr depending upon which revolver they are being shot from. I think you might get better accuracy with a slightly heavier load. Give 3.2gr a try and see if you like it better.

 

[PPCSHOOTER]

3.1 WW231 IS THE IDEAL LOAD FOR THAT GUN WITH A FACTORY SPRING, I HAVE FOUND THAT THE REDDING PROFILE CRIMP DIE GREATLY IMPROVED MY GROUPS AT 50YDS. JP

 

[ArchAngelCD]

All caps???

 

[pmclaine]

Thanks for the replies.

Yes I crimp seperate from the seating die (Dillon dies on an S1050) and my crimp is slightly over the top of the WC. I visualize it more as an assist to feeding rather than a bullet holding measure. I read about .370+ on my crimp. With mixed brass there is some variance on seat depth and COL. I expect this will lead to some inaccuracy but everything fed great!

PD rounds are swaged and I got the basic lube which appears to be some sort of greasy moly. I was kind of surprised by this because my bullets received look like the match lube bullets shown on their site. The 2.9 grns of W231 was their suggestion for this bullet in a 52-2. Its a sweet shooting round - a slight cough, the slide come back, pull the trigger and the gun clears its throat again.

My hits on target were nice and square, no scuffing. I'll bump things up a tenth and give it a try. I'm cautious about velocity dont want to start losing skirts.

 

[boatbum101]

3.1 - 3.2 W231 or HP38 , 148 HBWC swaged either Remington , Zero or PD . Trim all cases to 1.145 & taper crimp to .369 . Will tighten your groups especially @ 50yds . Some guns like Bullseye 2.7 - 2.9 same bullets & crimp .

 

[pmclaine]

Shot the second batch of 50 from my first nights production. Much better results. Maybe 2.9 works.

This was my first target that caused me concern

This is what I had come to expect from my 52-2

This is what I just shot today.

This is acceptable to me. Maybe the second 50 rounds are a better group because the progressive had a chance to settle and get more consistent with production. I am not a good shot the gun is just scary shootable. I cant imagine what a real master is capable of with this pistol.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

My hits on target were nice and square, no scuffing. I'll bump things up a tenth and give it a try. I'm cautious about velocity dont want to start losing skirts.

It's going to take a lot more than 3.0gr or even 3.5gr of W231 to lose a skirt on your wadcutter. Hodgdon's load data with a 148gr HBWC starts with 3.5gr W231/HP-38 and goes to a Max of 4.0gr W231/HP-38 so you really don't have to worry about 3.0grs or 3.2grs W231...

I'm curious, who recommended that charge of 2.9gr W231?

That bottom target is a good looking target...

 

[pmclaine]

Precision Delta recommended 2.9 grns. I emailed them a question and got a return phone call from the principle to give me his pet load. Real nice people.

I'm going to load some more 2.9 tonight. If I get more targets like my last I see no need to waste powder or batter the pistol. It has run perfect at 2.9 even despite mixed brass and the variance in COL.

 

[shovelwrench]

One of the big problems I find crimping any wadcutter flush or slightly below is when the brass rolls over the bullet it has a tendency to force the bullet deeper in the case and cause seating depth variations(causing velocity variations..). With mixed brass this will be more pronounced. I like to seat my wadcutters just a hair above the case, it eliminates the issue. Also a good firm crimp is hard to acheive, it always seemed like a good solid crimp has helped with accuracy regardless of the caliber. I realize 52s are supposed to be seated flush, but give it a try, rested @ ten yards you should be getting sub-inch groups from that pistol fairly easily..

 

[pmclaine]

I've shot some ammo that was seated slightly above the brass, like a fingernails width of lead exposed. They fed okay one or two failures to enter the chamber. The magazine limits how long the cartridge can be somewhat. I have not shot the pistol rested yet, the targets are two handed at a pace I wouldnt call slow fire but its not double tapping either.

 

[planojack]

I've enjoyed th companionship of several 52-2's. All were happier with a slightly heavier load. I normally use 3.1 or 3.2 grains of Bullseye. I prefer the double end wadcutters.

 

[Engineer1911]

I used an "ejection test" on my 52-2. I fired 5 rounds of Rem 148 grain HBWC to see how the case ejected and how far it flew before hitting the ground.

I made sure my reloads didn't exceed the Remington "ejection criteria". I used Lyman cast wadcutters made from range scrap and military 38 Spl brass. Brass ejected about 2 feet before hitting the ground. Remington factory ammo brass hit 2-1/2 to 3 feet away.

I could keep my reloads in the X-ring at 20 feet, it was another story at 50 yards.

 

[pmclaine]

Made some more loads of W231 at 2.9 grain Prec. Delta HBWC the other night based on my results shown on that final target above. I shot 50 of them using my range bag as a rest

I'm pretty happy with the results as they are better than what I have been able to obtain locally for wadcutter - S&B only, no Remington or the other known good brands.

I think my reloads will work well enough for plinking and they are really cheap to make. I'm thinking that first target above must have been the result of my machine settling in. I'll try these out in my 27-2, model 36 and a Colt Police Positive for fun.

 

[venomballistics]

I think your fist group had some "I am burning loads I just made" syndrome ... makes the best of us twitchy till we gain some confidence in em.
keep playing with it ... she can do better.

 

[mistergizmo]

Volumetrically, 3.1 gr of W231 is the same as 2.8 gr of BE. Found that out years ago when switching from BE to W231 in my Star Press.

Group sizes at both 25 and 50 yds did not change using a Ransom Rest. These were fired in a 52-2 and also in a Clark LSHB.

Remington's swaged 148 gr HBWC were best. Never blew a skirt.

Always used a roll crimp with the HBWC just below, as many others have done. My objective was to match the Reminton, Federal and W-W factory load. My early attempts to use a taper crimp resulted in occasional slight foreward bullet movement as the breech face slammed the round into the chamber.

Just my opinion ...

 

[S.B.]

My go to load for a S&W 52-2 was the old dirty Zero 148 gr over 2.7 pf Bulls Eye. Most of these guys are shooting so close I'd be afraid the paper would catch on fire from the muzzle flash? This always worked great for me at 25 and 50 yards?
Steve

 

[brian_a_mcmillen]

I'm with S.B. on this one. The standard for Bullseye shooting for many years was the 148 grn HBWC on top of 2.7 grains of Bullseye powder and a very slight crimp on the case. My dad shot many matches using this load (which he loaded on a Star reloader). He also shot on the Indiana State Police pistol team and won many awards as well as a couple of pistols including a Model 41! I believe that the model 52 was designed to use that load. Brian

 

[mstuhr]

difference between good and great for mine

Howdy,
I have tried numerous loads in my 52-2. Many shoot pretty good but 3.5gr of 231 really brings it to life. Makes it the 52 a person dreams about.
I worried about it at first, but it is an all steel pistol and 3.5 grn of 231 in a model 10 is nothing to sweat. Heck, 3.5 of 231 and a 147 grain bullet barely crack 900 fps out of a 9mm.
I did put a little more spring in it.
I'm not recommending the load. I don't think it is all that bad, but others will likely disagree.
Another benefit is the gun seems to be more trouble free. Ejection is crisp and there is nothing sluggish about feeding.
Not to be contrary to what others have said but guns are funny. Mine shows a preference for hotter than average loads.
Thanks and good luck.
Mike

 

[S.B.]

mstuhr, I found setting the bullet depth just long of the case mouth(to ease the bullet up the feed ramp), created the best of all worlds for me. Of course could of been just my pistol?
Steve

 

[M29since14]

Good luck trying to duplicate the best .38 wadcutter factory loads. I don't think anyone knows how to do that.

Over the years, I have tried all sorts of powders in my 52 and listened to and read what others had to say. There have been some interesting theories from time to time (like the one that held that 52s did better with slower burning powders) but none of them ever seem to catch on and the old standby loads with Bullseye, 700X and, to a lesser extent, 231, seem to prevail.

I believe the targets shown are just scratching the surface of what your 52 is really capable of, and would hazard the guess that ANY load which is successful in your 52 will also be just fine in your revolvers. That's always been the case for me.

I would at least try to keep the handloads close to the same velocity as factory ammunition, or just a bit slower - but not too much slower. I have seen shooters using loads in their 52s that would not even come close to cracking 700 FPS. Results always seem to suffer accordingly. In my view, that has to serve to compound follow through problems. Note though that that is a shooting problem, not an ammunition problem. There is a difference.

 

[pmclaine]

Thanks for all the replies. From the Bullseye shooters it seems that the 2.9grains of W231 should be comparable somewhat to the 2.7 grains of Bullseye that is the traditional load? I dont want a heavy load or to change springs. I'm thinking 3.5 may be too much though the steel gun should handle it.

I have no chrono to check numbers. I've fired about 200 rounds of this 2.9 W231 load through the 52 and it cycles nicely, not one hiccup.

The accuracy, for me, has been better than factory ammo (Sellier and Beliot not the preffered factory offerings). I'm only plinking around at 10 yards. I'll have to get a proper target and see what the gun can do at the 25 yard and 50 yard distances. I dont think I have the follow through and holding skills to take advantage of what the gun can do but it is fun to shoot.

I have 1000 cases of new brass that I will designate as my 52-2 ammo. I'm going to load some tonight and I will see how it does with the brass variable removed.

Thanks again.

 

[Jeff423]

Remingtom Factory 148 gr Wadcutter

FWIW: Here is a picture of a Remington Factory 148 gr. wadcutter. The OAL is 1.18". You will notice that it has a nice roll crimp and the lead protrudes a few thousands above the case.
I took one of these apart carefully and it appeared to hold 2.8 gr of Bullseye. I'm sure about the weight and the powder looked to me to be the same as the BE I had on hand, but I can't prove it was BE.
I posted this because in an older article I read about the 52 the author said he was never able to achieve the same accuracy with hand loads that he got with Remington factory loads.

Jeff

 

[Beerjman]

jeff423, this is an excellent observation . I also believe that the "Remington crimp" has a lot to do with the accuracy . IMHO it allows the pressure of the powder to build up just right before the bullet is released from the case.

 

[bobbyd]

231 works just rigt in my 52 at about 3.0 gr but each gun is an individual and a little bit of experimenting is probably in order.

I don't want to resurrect the "mixed brass vs sorting-by-headstamp" debate but my experience is that sorting and/or being selective in brand of brass used will minimize some of those mysterious fliers that spoil an otherwise perfect group.
You can definitely feel the difference in neck tension when seating the bullet and I can't help but this believe this can have an effect on consistency.

 

[pmclaine]

My Dillon crimp does a nice job in "capping" the lead. The brass just turns over the lead and mimics an old box of Western mid range I have. I thought feeding was going to be an issue but not one problem so far even with mixed brass.

Last load session I bumped up my charge slightly to +/- 3.0. Ive only fired one box of 50 and not under ideal conditions (after working a double)

I have another box of 50 with me now but alas it will be fired after working a double. I take the overtimes to fund my shooting but shooting tired is not the best for accuracy.

I've got a good supply of the W231 3.0 grn rounds loaded up in new brass with a consistent headstamp. I'll see how it works but I'm thinking 2.9 might be a good spot for my gun.

 

[S.B.]

My Dillon crimp does a nice job in "capping" the lead. The brass just turns over the lead and mimics an old box of Western mid range I have. I thought feeding was going to be an issue but not one problem so far even with mixed brass.

Last load session I bumped up my charge slightly to +/- 3.0. Ive only fired one box of 50 and not under ideal conditions (after working a double)

I have another box of 50 with me now but alas it will be fired after working a double. I take the overtimes to fund my shooting but shooting tired is not the best for accuracy.

I've got a good supply of the W231 3.0 grn rounds loaded up in new brass with a consistent headstamp. I'll see how it works but I'm thinking 2.9 might be a good spot for my gun.

As long as all your brass is the same length!
Steve