Show us your King Sighted Guns

Here's a less than pristine K-22 Outdoorsman, shipped in mid-1934, that has been fitted with a King reflector front sight (which I believe is period correct) and what looks to be an aftermarket hammer. The rear sight and trigger both appear to be original.

Edit: I'm almost ashamed to post these photos, as everybody else's examples in this thread are so nice, while this one is well used and pretty much a beater in comparison.

 

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I'll play, Jim...

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Even though it's not marked as such (at least that I can see), is it possible that hammer on my gun is a King? (Post #31)
 
Goony said:
Even though it's not marked as such (at least that I can see), is it possible that hammer on my gun is a King? (Post #31)
Click to expand...

Goony,

Someone with a King hammer will have to let us both know if they were stamped King. But the only other custom hammers I know of that are exact copies of the King right, left and double cockeyed hammer are the Microsight, and they are stamped Micro on the left side. So if yours is not stamped Micro I'm inclined to think it's a King pending verification of their marking.

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Jim, of course mine doesn't have a hammer nose, but the style of the spur looks to my eye to be identical. It is definitely not marked with any brand name, just "REG. U.S. PAT.OFF." as can be seen in my photo.
 
The hammer in question looks like an original S&W factory one of that period.

Regards,

Tam 3
 
Tam 3,
But S&W had no wide spur hammers pre war, in fact not until the early '50s. And they never had the two hashmarks in front of the spur checkering which are indicative of the King and Micro design.

Goony,
In reviewing pace40's photos I now see that his hammer closeup does show the King Patent stamping. And in reviewing your hammer spur photo I noticed it doesn't have the 'teardrop' shape on the spur tip like the King and Micro. But neither do the hammers on pace40's K22 Outdorsman and 38 M&P Super King Target conversions, and it seems highly unlikely that they would have some other smith's custom made wide spur hammers. They don't appear to be stamped King either.

As bettis1 has documented, there was quite a 'brewhaha' over Micro's copy of the King hammer.
So we may be looking at different vintages of King's hammer modification and after the court case King may have no longer stamped them as patented since the patent protection was nill; all my speculation of course. But I think you have a King hammer based on the above observations.
 
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Remington Model 25

Not a Smith obviously, but certainly a King. Here is the seldom seen King Triple Bead front sight and King Quad rear sight factory supplied on a Remington Model 25 in .32-20. The front sight has a small and medium size brass bead and a medium size ivory bead. The elevator on the rear sight doubles as a slotted screwdriver for changing the leaf position. The evelator is also graduated from 100 to 400+ yds. The leaf has 4 different types of notches.

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Sorry, I don't own any King conversion Smiths.
 
Hondo44 said:
I have an N frame pre war target with S&W rear sight with the two elevation screws that has the grooves above the hammer behind the blade and is unmodified. I also have a '2 screw' pre war factory rear sight only with the serial number 9639 stamped on the under side. It's an N frame length with grooves above the hammer behind the blade.

I have to look but I think I or my son may have another pre war target with grooved rear sight.
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Yeah Dad, my Triple Lock .44 6 1/2 inch target has the grooves on the rear sight too. I think we checked and it also numbers to the gun. My cut up second model .455 had the rear sight with grooves too.
Matt
 
Coldshooter said:
Do the reflectors actually help or do they cause glare on the front sight?
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They actually help IMO. The refelctor illuminates the front bead at a 45 degree angle so there's no glare when lining up the sights. One would only see reflected glare if looking at the bead from a 45 degree angle above it.
 
Obviously, some of the more elaborate and fancier conversions pictured here, especially in almost new condition as many seem to be, are going to be desirable items and therefore pretty pricey. My question is for the more ordinary gun, does the period correct substitution of King sights, hammer, et cetera, in general enhance or detract from its value (take that term as being in either the collectible or monetary sense)? Any concensus on this, or is it something of a contentious issue?
 
Goony said:
Obviously, some of the more elaborate and fancier conversions pictured here, especially in almost new condition as many seem to be, are going to be desirable items and therefore pretty pricey. My question is for the more ordinary gun, does the period correct substitution of King sights, hammer, et cetera, in general enhance or detract from its value (take that term as being in either the collectible or monetary sense)? Any concensus on this, or is it something of a contentious issue?
Click to expand...

The 1st time I posted a 38 M&P Super Target on the Forum about 6-7 years ago I was somewhat surprised with how many negative comments were posted "its not Factory so it is not worth as much as if it were original"

It seems over the past 5 years King has become a collectible variation and members have changed their minds or maybe the overall membership has become more open minded. I think they are just plain Cool!!!!

Dan
 
Goony,

In my opinion this is one of the exceptions to the generally held belief that "if not factory, then not as valuable". I would place a premium on guns that were originally purchased by obviously knowledgeable and discerning individuals who went the extra mile to have these guns "enhanced" with the kind of features that King offered. The King products were high quality and the fit and finish is certainly on par with the S&W standards. Although I do not own one, I am sure these guns are a joy to handle and shoot. Not to mention, these guns just look cool. All this adds value.

If it hasn't happened already, I would guess that this specialized area of collecting is going to see a quicker appreciation than your run of the mill production guns. Threads like this get more people on board with these neatly outfitted gems.
 
Hondo, when you're right, you're right.
Regarding the effect of the King reflector, I refer to it as depression era fiber optics.

Regards,

Tam 3
 
Hi
I would like to thank everybody that posted there King guns. I have been collecting King guns for over 35 Years. I have some where in the area of 20 different King guns.
In the Large Frames I have one for every model of the 44,s from Triple lock thru the 4th Model. I am missing some of the small frame in king I thing the I frames are very neat.
Thanks again
Jim Fisher
 
Dan M said:
The 1st time I posted a 38 M&P Super Target on the Forum about 6-7 years ago I was somewhat surprised with how many negative comments were posted "its not Factory so it is not worth as much as if it were original"

It seems over the past 5 years King has become a collectible variation and members have changed their minds or maybe the overall membership has become more open minded. I think they are just plain Cool!!!!
Click to expand...

I think many otherwise knowledgable S&W collectors haven't been up to speed on the King Super Target Revolvers (I know I wasn't until getting involved in this thread). It's one thing for an owner to have added on a few King accessories, and quite another for King to have performed one of their conversions, which besides the fitting of the vent rib assembly with its superior sights, also included (quoting Catalog No. 19 here), "Hand Honed Actions, Adjusted Trigger Pulls, and Balanced Mainsprings."

All that work did not come cheap (at least in terms of the value of Depression-era dollars). A factory stock K-22 Outdoorsman could be bought at that time through King for $38.00; a K-22 Super Target, on the other hand, ran $61.50! That's over a 60% premium, and represents a not inconsequential amount of money back then.

Edit: As to the question of how the value of the Super Target type as a collectible has evolved, see: Smith & Wesson King Super Target Auction

This sale took place almost a year ago, and I don't suppose that gun would sell for less today.
 
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