Shreveport cops confiscating guns.

[bk43]

There is nothing in the facts here that point to a Terry search, or any search at all. This guy, and some media and talk show people, are throwing around a lot of inflammatory rhetoric like violated Constitutional rights ,search, confiscation, blood of my forefathers, profiling NRA members and such. If you look at what the guy says really happened, or listen to his phone conversation with the mayor, it becomes very clear this guy is a tool looking for his two minutes of fame. The cop conducted himself in a perfectly legal and professional manner and made a mistake by cutting him some slack by not issuing a ticket.

Here's his conversation with the mayor. http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa_G5NvfyVU

Bob

 

[jumbeaux]

Shreveport

Shreveport is a formerly wonderful city that is out of control due to drugs and gangs. Once contained to select areas of the city the bad guys are now everywhere. The mayor has several pretty tough issues to deal with but this does seem unreasonable and illegal. The chief of police is the former commander of the Louisana State Police. He has been using strong arm tactics to little effect. I have two friends that serve as Patrol Officer with Shreveport PD......I don't think this unreasonable approach to law enforcement is department wide. I will say that Shreveport is not longer my choice for anything other than an occasional visit (for medical reasons). My wife and I used to spend at least one day a week in Shreveport....no longer safe. Just a side comment....as a kid I had a couple of run ins with LSP and Shreveport PD....all involving traffic violations. Both times they looked at my Texas license plates and told me to hook 'em back to Texas and keep my rear end outta Shreveport.....it was good advice 37 years ago and you know what... it still maybe.....

jumbeaux

 

[Herknav]

There is nothing in the facts here that point to a Terry search, or any search at all. This guy, and some media and talk show people, are throwing around a lot of inflammatory rhetoric like violated Constitutional rights ,search, confiscation, blood of my forefathers, profiling NRA members and such. If you look at what the guy says really happened, or listen to his phone conversation with the mayor, it becomes very clear this guy is a tool looking for his two minutes of fame. The cop conducted himself in a perfectly legal and professional manner and made a mistake by cutting him some slack by not issuing a ticket.

Here's his conversation with the mayor. http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa_G5NvfyVU

Bob

Then please clear up my misunderstanding. I thought a Terry search limited the officer to searching the immediate vicinity of the suspect to ensure no weapons were within reach. In this case, the officer entered an unoccupied vehicle to retrieve the firearm. (Remember, the suspect was standing at the back of the vehicle.) My question is what authority does he have to do this?

Whether you call it a search or not, the officer entered a vehicle and removed property that presented no danger to anyone present. Does the fact the that the suspect "volunteered" that there was a weapon in the truck somehow give the officer consent to retrieve it?

These are the "facts" as they were presented on GunTalk a few weeks back.

Thanks in advance,
Herk

 

[bk43]

Then please clear up my misunderstanding. I thought a Terry search limited the officer to searching the immediate vicinity of the suspect to ensure no weapons were within reach.

Terry v Ohio is about reasonable suspicion, or probable cause, v the Fourth Amendment. In Louisiana an officer can disarm a CCW holder if they so desire during a stop. There is no mention of threats, suspicions, criminal activity or anything else in the law. The officer asks if you have a weapon and if you do, they have a perfect right to secure it during the stop.

I think this Louisiana law is overly broad, way too fuzzy and probably over the line as far as rights are concerned. But hey, nobody there is going to give a rip what a Floridian thinks. In Louisiana, give the nice man your DL, insurance, registration and gun if they ask 'cause they have a right to them.

Bob

 

[R-Tex]

As I understand the situation from listening to Tom Gresham on Guntalk, what got the guy stirred up was when the mayor stated that a person's rights are suspended when that person is stopped by the police.

IIRC, Tom said something this past Sunday about the mayor trying to distance himself from the comment.

 

[Herknav]

Terry v Ohio is about reasonable suspicion, or probable cause, v the Fourth Amendment. In Louisiana an officer can disarm a CCW holder if they so desire during a stop. There is no mention of threats, suspicions, criminal activity or anything else in the law. The officer asks if you have a weapon and if you do, they have a perfect right to secure it during the stop.

I think this Louisiana law is overly broad, way too fuzzy and probably over the line as far as rights are concerned. But hey, nobody there is going to give a rip what a Floridian thinks. In Louisiana, give the nice man your DL, insurance, registration and gun if they ask 'cause they have a right to them.

Bob

Thanks for clearing that up. I understood your second sentence earlier. I just wouldn't have thought it applied to a gun that was not on your person and well out of reach.

 

[cshoff]

<snip> In Louisiana, give the nice man your DL, insurance, registration and gun if they ask 'cause they have a right to them.

Bob

Where did you get that from? Do you know of a LA law that gives a LEO the right to confiscate a firearm from a citizen without probable cause or a warrant?

 

[bk43]

I just wouldn't have thought it applied to a gun that was not on your person and well out of reach.

I don't think it should, and I suspect you don't either. But the law is silent on that so, be it on the side of the road or in court, the officer is going to win and we lose.

Bob

 

[DoctaDink]

Where did you get that from? Do you know of a LA law that gives a LEO the right to confiscate a firearm from a citizen without probable cause or a warrant?

As stated previously, Regarding a Conceal Carry Permit holder, the LA statue says:
Duties of Permittees
The permit shall be retained by the permittee who shall immediately produce it upon the request of any law enforcement officer. Anyone who fails to do so shall be fined not more than one hundred dollars. Additionally, when any peace officer approaches a permittee in an official manner or with an identified purpose, the permittee shall:

1. Notify the officer that he has a weapon on his person;
2. Submit to a pat down;
3. Allow the officer to temporarily disarm him.

Note that it says "temporarily disarm him". Not confiscate.
Now regarding open carry, I'm not sure, but I believe the same holds true. If you are carrying in your car, it is treated like your residence, with the same protections. (I'm not clear about the "Terry" situation, however. )

 

[cshoff]

As stated previously, Regarding a Conceal Carry Permit holder, the LA statue says:
Duties of Permittees
The permit shall be retained by the permittee who shall immediately produce it upon the request of any law enforcement officer. Anyone who fails to do so shall be fined not more than one hundred dollars. Additionally, when any peace officer approaches a permittee in an official manner or with an identified purpose, the permittee shall:

1. Notify the officer that he has a weapon on his person;
2. Submit to a pat down;
3. Allow the officer to temporarily disarm him.

Note that it says "temporarily disarm him". Not confiscate.
Now regarding open carry, I'm not sure, but I believe the same holds true. If you are carrying in your car, it is treated like your residence, with the same protections. (I'm not clear about the "Terry" situation, however. )

The poster I quoted implied that a LEO in LA had a "right" to confiscate a firearm from anyone. His words were:

In Louisiana, give the nice man your DL, insurance, registration and gun if they ask 'cause they have a right to them

The law cited clearly states that a CCW permit holder MUST "allow the officer to temporarily disarm him", but it obviously has no bearing on someone who has a firearm in their vehicle and who does NOT hold a permit. I was simply asking the poster to produce the statute he was getting his information from.

 

[N_itis]

Shreveport is a formerly wonderful city that is out of control due to drugs and gangs. Once contained to select areas of the city the bad guys are now everywhere. The mayor has several pretty tough issues to deal with but this does seem unreasonable and illegal. The chief of police is the former commander of the Louisana State Police. He has been using strong arm tactics to little effect. I have two friends that serve as Patrol Officer with Shreveport PD......I don't think this unreasonable approach to law enforcement is department wide. I will say that Shreveport is not longer my choice for anything other than an occasional visit (for medical reasons). My wife and I used to spend at least one day a week in Shreveport....no longer safe. Just a side comment....as a kid I had a couple of run ins with LSP and Shreveport PD....all involving traffic violations. Both times they looked at my Texas license plates and told me to hook 'em back to Texas and keep my rear end outta Shreveport.....it was good advice 37 years ago and you know what... it still maybe.....

jumbeaux

I could not agree more. I lived in Shreveport during my high school and college years. Just passed through a few weeks ago for the first time in about ten years. Completely different town. Yes, things are changing everywhere but to see where Shreveport is now as compared to where it was in the early to mid 1990s is truly depressing (which is saying a lot, as Shreveport boasted the highest number of "drive by" shootings per capita of any city in the country when I lived there). The formerly "nice" areas of South Shreveport where I lived now look like nothing more than an extension of "The Hood."

Not up on the politics since I left but my guess is that Cedric Glover is a big part of the problem. I remember him as a twenty something City Councilman and I left just after he was elected to the State Legislature (hey, at that age, I was paid a lot of attention to politics on all levels; I even worked on Jim McCreary's campaigns). Glover has been intimately involved in Shreveport politics going back to his early twenties and the "downhill slide" has been completely on his watch.

As far as the Chief of Police, Henry Whitehorn, is concerned, I have only heard good things about him from people I respect who were/are in the law enforcement community there. But, I suspect his current job is just a bit overwhelming.

 

[bk43]

I lived in Shreveport during my high school and college years. Just passed through a few weeks ago for the first time in about ten years. Completely different town.

I got my IFR rating at Don Crow's FBO in the early eighties at the Downtown Shreveport Airport. Passed through about two years ago and can't express how saddened I was seeing what the airport and town have become.

Bob