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Side by side shotgun issue
- Thread starter jake1945
- Start date
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That could be caused by a failure of the top lever to rotate the vertical bolt which, in turn, fails to move the horizontal bolt to the unlocked position. Thus, the breech is still locked into the receiver. Either the vertical bolt or the horizontal bolt may have broken. Disassembly of the receiver is required in order to access those internal parts for removal and diagnosis. On a boxlock or false sideplate boxlock gun, that disassembly is fairly straightforward for the reasonably skilled amateur home gunsmith equipped with the proper tools. On sidelock guns, the job is best left to a professional gunsmith.
scooter123
Member
A more detailed explanation of WHY it cannot be opened would be helpful. For example are the firing pins extended forward into the breech and blocking further opening. Or, is the release lever not functioning.
For either issue I expect that the initial approach to a solution is to remove the butt stock which can be a bit complicated compared to an O/U shotgun. The first thing you will need to determine is if the shotgun is a Boxlock or Side Lock. Because the method for mounting a stock is often dependent on the lock design.
For either issue I expect that the initial approach to a solution is to remove the butt stock which can be a bit complicated compared to an O/U shotgun. The first thing you will need to determine is if the shotgun is a Boxlock or Side Lock. Because the method for mounting a stock is often dependent on the lock design.
Does the top lever move to the right?
If it does,,then with both bbls having been 'fired',,you'll need to place quite a bit more muscle into opening the gun than you did when the gun was cocked.
You may be just feeling the resistance of the uncocked mainsprings now and didn't when they were always cocked before and opening the gun was easy.
This may not be the issue, but if you aren't that familiar with SxS's it can be something that I've seen some people hesitate at wanting to force the action open thinking there is something wrong.
If it does,,then with both bbls having been 'fired',,you'll need to place quite a bit more muscle into opening the gun than you did when the gun was cocked.
You may be just feeling the resistance of the uncocked mainsprings now and didn't when they were always cocked before and opening the gun was easy.
This may not be the issue, but if you aren't that familiar with SxS's it can be something that I've seen some people hesitate at wanting to force the action open thinking there is something wrong.
Hair Trigger
US Veteran
Would help to know;
1-would the gun break open BEFORE the triggers were pulled?
2- is it a side lock or box lock action?
3-make of the shotgun
4-how long since it has been fired?
On many box locks, there is a lever type cocking arm that pushes the hammers back as the gun is broken open. It is spring-loaded to limit its movement, and maybe that cocking lever has frozen or broken and binding.
Otherwise, it's most likely the action lock frozen either from accumulated gunk or rust. The firing pins shouldn't contact anything in the action except the hammers, which would move out of the way as they cock when the gun is opened.
Before trying to disassemble anything, spray a good penetrating oil (Kroil or WD40) up between the triggers and around the pivot of the breech lock. You can also remove the fore end and spray around the pivot point of the barrels.
1-would the gun break open BEFORE the triggers were pulled?
2- is it a side lock or box lock action?
3-make of the shotgun
4-how long since it has been fired?
On many box locks, there is a lever type cocking arm that pushes the hammers back as the gun is broken open. It is spring-loaded to limit its movement, and maybe that cocking lever has frozen or broken and binding.
Otherwise, it's most likely the action lock frozen either from accumulated gunk or rust. The firing pins shouldn't contact anything in the action except the hammers, which would move out of the way as they cock when the gun is opened.
Before trying to disassemble anything, spray a good penetrating oil (Kroil or WD40) up between the triggers and around the pivot of the breech lock. You can also remove the fore end and spray around the pivot point of the barrels.
I assumed the OP had opened the gun before this adventure to check it as he says it was "(unloaded)".
There's not alot that can jam the things closed. A broken bolt spring mearly takes the tension out of the top lever but the lever still works by hand back and forth.
Having the bolt jam into the locking lug can happen if the gun has been monkeyed with to try and tighten it up. Peening the lug(s) and then slamming the gun shut can freeze the bolt very tightly into place where there isn't enough leverage provided by the top lever in some instances to re-open the gun. Doesn't sound like that's the case here.
But the first thing you have to know is if that top lever will still swing over to the unlocked position,,or not.
Then go from there.
You either can,,,or cannot unlock the bolt from the bbl's.
No matter what locking system is used from the simple top lever arm like a Lefever Nitro Special hooking into the bbl extension to a complicated 3 pt. lug engagement . You have to know wether it's unlocking or not.
Firing pins are down, but are in the middle of the chambers so they can't catch on anything during the initial opening.
If they are separate pins from the hammer and not one piece, they can cause a problem if they don't retract and clear the extractor blades as the bbl is opened further. That's usually a separate issue. The small groove in each side of the extractor is for pushing the pins back into the face of the breech as the empty bbls are opened.
Most SxS shotguns have their firing pins as one piece with the hammer. Notable exceptions are the Ithaca and the Ithaca made Lefever Nitro Specials (and these break quite often) and the LC Smith. Also a pin breaker.
Parker, Fox, Win 21, Stevens, all use(s) one piece hammer/firingpins.
Most Euro (Italian,Spanish) and Brit Sidelock guns will have separate
German & Austrian SxS's gun are usually box lock and have one piece firing pins in them. Their sidelocks go with separate pins generally.
But they like overhanging sears on the better boxlock guns.
You can try taking the forend off and then removing the bbls.
That will leave you with the three main pieces.
But..the gun will still be UN-cocked.
AND..depending on what specific gun you have,,,some will go right back together again. Put the bbls on the frame and the forend back on. The gun will still be uncocked of course.
Others will NOT allow you to put the bbls AND the forend back on the frame untill the action (hammers) are cocked.
Cocking the hammers on some is simple and all is needed is a screwdriver.
Some you need brute strength and a very strong immovable work bench to lean into to push the cocking arm down (one side at a time) Winchester 21's & Ithaca NID are like this.
Some call for the use a specialty tool to recock the hammers working off the cocking arms. LCS says this is so. Or you just can cock them using a screwdriver shank if you want to.
Parkers I use an 870 firing pin with the point cupped and fitted into a small handle. Use it working thru the firing pin hole(s) in the face of the frame. One size fits all.
All sorts of different things you can get involved in.
Search out the easiest first.
Don't start taking things apart till you try just some extra effort in opening the gun If the toplever is still easy to open to the right as it has always been.
If not then it's time to start a disassembly.
Get the forearm off,,then the bbls.
Then depending on what style of butt stock attachment (tang screws or through bolt), you can go from there to get to the inside.
Hope that's not necessary.
There's not alot that can jam the things closed. A broken bolt spring mearly takes the tension out of the top lever but the lever still works by hand back and forth.
Having the bolt jam into the locking lug can happen if the gun has been monkeyed with to try and tighten it up. Peening the lug(s) and then slamming the gun shut can freeze the bolt very tightly into place where there isn't enough leverage provided by the top lever in some instances to re-open the gun. Doesn't sound like that's the case here.
But the first thing you have to know is if that top lever will still swing over to the unlocked position,,or not.
Then go from there.
You either can,,,or cannot unlock the bolt from the bbl's.
No matter what locking system is used from the simple top lever arm like a Lefever Nitro Special hooking into the bbl extension to a complicated 3 pt. lug engagement . You have to know wether it's unlocking or not.
Firing pins are down, but are in the middle of the chambers so they can't catch on anything during the initial opening.
If they are separate pins from the hammer and not one piece, they can cause a problem if they don't retract and clear the extractor blades as the bbl is opened further. That's usually a separate issue. The small groove in each side of the extractor is for pushing the pins back into the face of the breech as the empty bbls are opened.
Most SxS shotguns have their firing pins as one piece with the hammer. Notable exceptions are the Ithaca and the Ithaca made Lefever Nitro Specials (and these break quite often) and the LC Smith. Also a pin breaker.
Parker, Fox, Win 21, Stevens, all use(s) one piece hammer/firingpins.
Most Euro (Italian,Spanish) and Brit Sidelock guns will have separate
German & Austrian SxS's gun are usually box lock and have one piece firing pins in them. Their sidelocks go with separate pins generally.
But they like overhanging sears on the better boxlock guns.
You can try taking the forend off and then removing the bbls.
That will leave you with the three main pieces.
But..the gun will still be UN-cocked.
AND..depending on what specific gun you have,,,some will go right back together again. Put the bbls on the frame and the forend back on. The gun will still be uncocked of course.
Others will NOT allow you to put the bbls AND the forend back on the frame untill the action (hammers) are cocked.
Cocking the hammers on some is simple and all is needed is a screwdriver.
Some you need brute strength and a very strong immovable work bench to lean into to push the cocking arm down (one side at a time) Winchester 21's & Ithaca NID are like this.
Some call for the use a specialty tool to recock the hammers working off the cocking arms. LCS says this is so. Or you just can cock them using a screwdriver shank if you want to.
Parkers I use an 870 firing pin with the point cupped and fitted into a small handle. Use it working thru the firing pin hole(s) in the face of the frame. One size fits all.
All sorts of different things you can get involved in.
Search out the easiest first.
Don't start taking things apart till you try just some extra effort in opening the gun If the toplever is still easy to open to the right as it has always been.
If not then it's time to start a disassembly.
Get the forearm off,,then the bbls.
Then depending on what style of butt stock attachment (tang screws or through bolt), you can go from there to get to the inside.
Hope that's not necessary.
Rpg
Member
I had a beautiful Parker DH that did this.
I was hunting and fired a shot. Thing froze up and I couldn’t open it or fire the second barrel.
I took it to my double gunsmith. (I warned him that one barrel was loaded). A few days later he’d fixed it.
He explained that the action was pretty gummy and needed cleaning.
I can’t imagine how that could have happened: it was only made in 1896
I was hunting and fired a shot. Thing froze up and I couldn’t open it or fire the second barrel.
I took it to my double gunsmith. (I warned him that one barrel was loaded). A few days later he’d fixed it.
He explained that the action was pretty gummy and needed cleaning.
I can’t imagine how that could have happened: it was only made in 1896
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Cooter Brown
Member
Wow. That's just damned impressive, and I bet right off the top of your head.
Who is this masked man!
2152hq, on a boxlock how does removing the fore-end alone allow the barrels to be separated from the action? Isn't rotation still required due to the "hook" shape of the lug under the barrels? If the locking bar or other mechanism prevents rotation with the fore-end on, why would it not also prevent rotation with the fore-end removed?
OP, is it truly impossible to break open, or merely very difficult? I shoot a CZ-USA Sharp-Tail 12 ga SxS Coach Gun in SASS shooting. When it was new and just out of the box, I practically had to break it over my thigh after each two shots to open it, a known issue with brand new Sharp-Tails. That made it pretty much useless for SASS shooting. But tuning and polishing the cocking rods, and then vigorously polishing every metal surface that contacts another metal surface, made a tremendous difference. Then, simply using it and shooting it a lot REALLY did the trick to the point where it almost falls open when I push the top lever over with my right thumb -- and I expect that it eventually will simply fall open in the not-too-distant future, after more regular use.
OP, is it truly impossible to break open, or merely very difficult? I shoot a CZ-USA Sharp-Tail 12 ga SxS Coach Gun in SASS shooting. When it was new and just out of the box, I practically had to break it over my thigh after each two shots to open it, a known issue with brand new Sharp-Tails. That made it pretty much useless for SASS shooting. But tuning and polishing the cocking rods, and then vigorously polishing every metal surface that contacts another metal surface, made a tremendous difference. Then, simply using it and shooting it a lot REALLY did the trick to the point where it almost falls open when I push the top lever over with my right thumb -- and I expect that it eventually will simply fall open in the not-too-distant future, after more regular use.
We don't even know if the top lever still works as it's supposed to...But I was assuming it did.
Maybe a bad assumption on my part,,sorry.
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