SIG P320 Discharges?

Will current owners have to turn in their automatic handguns into the feds or will those still wanting a Sig 320 variant be required to obtain a class III license? Sig screwed the pooch on this PR disaster.
 
This is interesting.

SIG has lost 2 cases in court and is appealing. They won and settled others. The Army, Navy, and Marine Corps have not "grounded" the M17/18 despite several accidents with injuries. They have passed (and continue to pass) DOD (regular LAT/lot acceptance testing), and CA DOJ safety tests (the M18 is on the approved handgun roster there).

p320-california-gallery-2.jpg

When the M9 slides were failing (6 in service, 12 in testing) Beretta sued the government for defamation in court and won. The government had to pay for the M9 slide modifications, not Beretta. DOD went on to buy about 200,000 more pistols in follow on contracts to the original 300,000 pistol contact.

I suppose SIG is hoping their lawyers are as good as Beretta's were.

Did I trust my M9? Yes. As I trusted my M15, M1911A1, and M11. Would I trust an M18? No. Good thing I'm retired.
 
Bob Smalser said:
Reminder the Sig mishap is not a new story. The design of the Smith & Wesson Victory Model (Model 10) was modified in 1945 to include an improved hammer block after a sailor was killed by a loaded revolver discharging when accidentally dropped onto a steel deck. Many don't consider pre-war Smiths drop safe, and carry the hammer on an empty chamber.
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You are correct, but EVRYBODY considers ALL pre-war S&W's safe from self-ignition at a time not of your choosing. The SIG has displayed itself to be unsafe when it is assembled and a loaded magazine is inserted. A very different condition.
 
Rust E. Badge said:
You are correct, but EVRYBODY considers ALL pre-war S&W's safe from self-ignition at a time not of your choosing. The SIG has displayed itself to be unsafe when it is assembled and a loaded magazine is inserted. A very different condition.
Click to expand...
Additionally, during the middle of a war, a literal world war, Smith & Wesson immediately acknowledge the issue with the hammer, engineered a solution and implemented it. No lawsuits, no denial, just action and accountability. That’s how it should be done.
 
That's the same video, post #383 above, of the guy with the wood screw shown and discussed above.

I dunno, I still find it unconvincing in that he says the trigger pull doesn't actually begin until the wall, and then sets the trigger, using the screw a bit past the wall.

Then he jostles the pistol.

I think the trigger pull begins with taking up the slack or pre-travel, and I suspect other pistols, too, would go off if their triggers were set past the beginning of the wall and the pistol then jostled.

And as for not using his finger, okay, but the trigger has still been forced backward through the pre-travel and set back, a tiny bit, from the beginning of the wall, by the screw.

Does not change my overall take on the situation. I just think the wood screw guy test does not show that the P320 will go off without the trigger being pulled.
 
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I have belonged to a limited access/not publicly searchable forum of very hard use serious people for many years. Some of the members and leaders are cops and military, often with a SOCOM background where the training is far different from that given to line personnel. Many have engineering and litigation backgrounds. The overwhelming view point is that the P320 and its variants are too flawed for ANY use. (Note the P365 has a different design and DOES not display the problem.)
This stuff has been discussed at length, including the product liability issues. The resulting opinions and conclusions are HARSH, and also look at Sig's bad history with lying to the German government to engage in prohibited weapon trafficking. Here is a conclusion I have seen expressed and I think is correct: ANY LE or MIL officer who has not prohibited the P320 is guilty of intentional dereliction of duty and should be relieved/fired for cause immediately. In my opinion, as a now retired criminal prosecutor and government cvil lawyer (same office in this state) ANY lawyer who takes a contrary position or otherwise attempts to defend SIG is guilty of intentional misconduct and should be HAMMERED with CR11b sanctions and very harsh Bar discipline. Even though I loathe the WA AGO, I would happily help them defend the CJTC against Sig.
 
Harv 24 said:
The Glock and M&P strikers are only under partial tension and not enough to pierce a primer (if the striker could get past the striker safety) and then only if the trigger safety is depressed allowing the trigger to move reward.
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Yes, Yes............ we get it. It can't possibly happen.

Except when it does.....
 
Ed Shea said:
I agree with Benton. The best case study on how to handle a product problem was the Tylenol problem. They did not question reported problems, pulled the product and cured the problem. Sig should take a lesson from this and move forward to investigate, warn and if necessary recall the weapon for a cure. Conducting an opposition PR campaign is futile and multiply losses.
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Except Tylenol covered up the fact that cyanide was used in the testing process inside their own factory..
 
I do have a very polite rebuttal to all of the dead horse commentary.

This is a deadly serious discussion in information that needs to be propagated. Right now, there are thousands of uninformed, gun owners, and people interested in guns who are looking at a flood of cheap tactical service pistols. Those people are going to be buying those weapons and using them for self-defense, For practice, for home defense and four concealed carry. They are going to come to forms like these, if we’re lucky, and might attempt to learn something. When the default response is that we are beating a dead horse, that shuts down for the discussion and communicates apathy. That is something that we should be better than. If you don’t like the updates, just don’t open the thread.
 
rmc51 said:

Video Shows Just How Bad Issues With Sig P320 May Be​

bearingarms.com

Video Shows Just How Bad Issues With Sig P320 May Be

Explore the serious issues surrounding the Sig P320 and its safety concerns.
bearingarms.com bearingarms.com

?
View attachment 780530
Click to expand...
Holding the trigger partially depressed with a screw while manipulating the slide appears to me as simulating negligence. Someone having their finger on the trigger while holstering or the trigger being partially depressed by snagging on something while holstering.

Are there videos of other brand firearms being tested in this manner?

I attempted to duplicate this test with my M18 short of jamming a screw into the trigger. Verified the firearm is cleared first. I held the trigger at the break point, pressed down on the slide repeatedly, banged the slide against a piece of furniture repeatedly and wiggled the slide along its length. No clicks. The slide on my M18 has very little noticeable vertical play. This is after over 6,000 rounds and a new recoil spring installed about 1,000 rounds back.
 
Thaddeus Beauregard said:
First, the trigger fix was not for this current issue; it was a response to the drop test failures that were brought to light by Omaha Outdoors in 2017. Sig made the change to a lighter trigger and a couple other modifications as part of their "voluntary upgrade" to address the problem with inertia firing the gun when dropped on the rear of the slide. That has absoluetly nothing to do with the current ADs being reported. No connection whatsoever. It's just yet another shameful chapter in the hasty and substandard engineering that went into development of the P320, a striker fired modification of their existing hammer fired P250. Second, they didn't do it out of the kindness of their tender hearts; they did it because they were getting their asses handed to them in the court of public opinion, just as they are now. All the while, they were telling their customer base that there was nothing wrong with the gun; the "voluntary upgrade" was a fix for a problem that they claimed didn't exist, yet it addressed a known safety issue to a gun they claimed wasn't unsafe, so the "voluntary upgrade" enhanced the safety of a perfectly safe gun, only now it was safer and there was never a problem even though that upgraded trigger solved a problem that they said didn't exist, despite our lying eyes seeing the problem that was nonexistant. Then, they also quietly changed the design to multiple parts and didn't inform P320 owners of the changes... because there was nothing wrong with the gun... no, these changes were merely enhancements because the gun was perfectly safe. Just ask them.

They earned every bit of the bad publicity for their outright lies, arrogance, and contempt for their paying customers.
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Well there were issues prior to what for lack of having a schematic in front of me I will call a disconnector lock and the slot/window the had to add to the early version. Recent incidents from the Air Force to recent testing by the Michigan State Police and FBI tests. Tests have set aside all concerns of the previous issues. Michigan State Police are still using the 320, as if every branch of Federal law enforcement and all branched of the military (including Air Force on other bases).

I liken some of this to the Audi issues of the 1980's when a few had electrical issues and then you started hearing stories of a wife running over her husband and blaming it on the car. Much the same as Alec Baldwin claimed he didn't pull the trigger. Did Sig rush the 320, of course or they would not have had the issue that was so simple to cut a window in the slide and add a part. Will the questions continue to be asked every time some has an accidental discharge because the neglected to recognize the primary safety for every gun is the same? Of course I mean keeping your finger clear of the trigger guard until your sights are on target.
 
GregPaulman said:
Will the questions continue to be asked every time some has an accidental discharge because the neglected to recognize the primary safety for every gun is the same? Of course I mean keeping your finger clear of the trigger guard until your sights are on target.
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Sigh! Here we go again.

How did that poor Air Force grunt get his finger on the trigger from across the room?
 
biku324 said:
What if it's my thread?? 😀😃
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Doesn't matter! We've got our mitts on it now! (Were you around when some guy posted about not liking thread drift? We all jumped in and drifted the bejeez outta that thread for weeks — months? — until the Big Griller shut it down because it was gobbling all his bandwidth!)
 
DRankin said:
Sigh! Here we go again.

How did that poor Air Force grunt get his finger on the trigger from across the room?
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Yep, and I thnk it is going to get worse.

Nation’s Law Enforcement Instructors Declare SIG P320 Unsafe for Training​

by Ken Segelhorst1 day ago
sofrep.com

Nation’s Law Enforcement Instructors Declare SIG P320 Unsafe for Training

The moment the nation’s top firearms instructors ban one of your pistols from training, the debate shifts from design flaws to a crisis of trust.
sofrep.com sofrep.com

A Girl & A Gun Statement on the P320​


Daughter sent me this.

1753898372469.gif

1753898259404.gif
 
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