LVSteve
Member
I'm not convinced the gun is fully in the holster when this starts. Whatever, in the absence of anything else being in the holster, the gun should not go off like that.
Sig P320 AD issues
- Thread starter LCC
- Start date
Some p320 will contenue to love there p320's Some of us that had P320 will sell or trade them and but a brand an model they trust and go on with there life . I sold my early production hammer drop upgraded not "recalled " P320c 40 after buying a XC model some 7 years later and found it had the famously unsorted chambers on the early X series pistols after sig stated mine was safe and up to factory specs , BS . I was not comfortable just selling or trading it so eventually went to my dealer knowing about the chamber issues for him to show to his sig rep and it was taken away. Some sort of deal was made and I picked up a m&p 4" compact with thumb safety and was optic ready as a replacement that cost nothing .
4MUL8R
Member
Had mine upgraded with the recall that was not named a recall. Sold after it was returned.
Have not heard of issues with VSP, who traded the P229 for the P320.
Have not heard of issues with VSP, who traded the P229 for the P320.
Paul in Nevada
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Something is obviously in the holster with the gun. When he bends down that foreign object pulls the trigger. I have watched dozens of similar
videos involving Glocks going back 30 years.
In my personal and unqualified opinion, LEO shouldn't be carrying striker fired guns without a safety anyway. They would be far safer with DA/SA or DAO pistols. That was the trend for a few years until Glock's incredibly successful marketing campaign converted everyone.
P320's don't fire unless you pull the trigger. This is consistent across all of these accounts. This particular video is one of the clearest examples of an ND I have seen so far.
videos involving Glocks going back 30 years.
In my personal and unqualified opinion, LEO shouldn't be carrying striker fired guns without a safety anyway. They would be far safer with DA/SA or DAO pistols. That was the trend for a few years until Glock's incredibly successful marketing campaign converted everyone.
P320's don't fire unless you pull the trigger. This is consistent across all of these accounts. This particular video is one of the clearest examples of an ND I have seen so far.
LVSteve
Member
What on earth would somebody poke into a holster with their gun? Not having been in LE I'm clueless. Do you think the foreign object would be admitted to in any inquiry?
kbm6893
Member
What could fit into a gun specific Kydex holster with I am sure a locking retention device? It's not like there's a lot of room in there like in some generic nylon or leather holster. Are we to assume that officer hadn't bent over that entire day? It's not like he holstered it inside his waistband without looking and a piece of t-shirt got trapped in the trigger guard.
It's funny how sometimes people just can't blame the weapon. Sometimes, the culprit IS a defective weapon.
Doug M.
Member
The Glock ND problem was truly negligent handling. I have never heard or seen of an incident there of that was not tied to negligent handling.
Some the incidents with the P320 are likely of the same nature. Some of them clearly are not. I belong to another forum that is comprised mostly of very hard use/serious folks, and the discussion there has not been favorable to Sig. I have and like a 239 (9mm). I ordered a new one from Sig some years back and the dealer rejected it without even telling me because the QC was lacking. This was consistent with multiple reports from credible people - inconsistent quality. I did get the pistol eventually, but had to sell it during a period of under employment, hence the one I have now.
Some the incidents with the P320 are likely of the same nature. Some of them clearly are not. I belong to another forum that is comprised mostly of very hard use/serious folks, and the discussion there has not been favorable to Sig. I have and like a 239 (9mm). I ordered a new one from Sig some years back and the dealer rejected it without even telling me because the QC was lacking. This was consistent with multiple reports from credible people - inconsistent quality. I did get the pistol eventually, but had to sell it during a period of under employment, hence the one I have now.
Paul in Nevada
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Some kind of cord hanging from the officer's uniform would be an easy guess. There are several accounts of officers causing ND's when the pull cord from a jacket is tangled in the trigger guard. Using the wrong holster is another possibility. There is a famous account of a Canadian soldier shooting himself with his P320 because he was using a holster for a P226. Let me turn the question around on you: if you loaded a P320 and set it on a shelf, what would cause it to discharge itself? Are we saying the trigger moves on it's own? Is the sear slipping off the striker? These events should be provable and repeatable. The one constant I see in all these ND's is that the weapon is holstered. Can you squeeze, twist, vibrate a holstered P320 until it fails without touching the trigger? Try it. You will be internet famous if you can make it happen.
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From SigSauer:
QUOTE
NEWINGTON, N.H., (July 31, 2023): SIG SAUER has the following statement relative to a reported unintentional discharge from an officer at the Montville, CT Police Department on Monday, July 24, 2023:
“We have seen the news reporting of the incident involving a P320 discharge at the Montville (CT) Police Department. We area confident, as is the case in all instances, that when the factors and evidence are reviewed this will be proven to be an unintentional discharge as a result of inadvertent contact with the trigger, and that the pistol did not fire without a trigger pull.
In reviewing the video footage of this incident currently available, it appears that the involved firearm was not fully seated in its holster and the holster retention hood was not fully closed over the pistol at the time of discharge (images below). This improperly holstered condition would have left the firearm’s trigger exposed and vulnerable to actuation. Even if properly holstered, the features of the involved holster allow for foreign object intrusion and interaction with the trigger, as has been seen in other incidents.
We regret that the involved agency jumped to conclusions regarding the cause of this discharge without first carefully examining the footage of the incident and providing SIG SAUER with an opportunity to assist in the examination of the involved firearm.
The P320 model firearm is used effectively and safely every day, by both civilians and armed professionals. Despite years of litigation and extensive discovery, no one has ever been able to replicate a condition under which the P320 could discharge without a trigger pull, and experts who have attempted to assert such a claim have been rep
[/QUOTE]
QUOTE
NEWINGTON, N.H., (July 31, 2023): SIG SAUER has the following statement relative to a reported unintentional discharge from an officer at the Montville, CT Police Department on Monday, July 24, 2023:
“We have seen the news reporting of the incident involving a P320 discharge at the Montville (CT) Police Department. We area confident, as is the case in all instances, that when the factors and evidence are reviewed this will be proven to be an unintentional discharge as a result of inadvertent contact with the trigger, and that the pistol did not fire without a trigger pull.
In reviewing the video footage of this incident currently available, it appears that the involved firearm was not fully seated in its holster and the holster retention hood was not fully closed over the pistol at the time of discharge (images below). This improperly holstered condition would have left the firearm’s trigger exposed and vulnerable to actuation. Even if properly holstered, the features of the involved holster allow for foreign object intrusion and interaction with the trigger, as has been seen in other incidents.
We regret that the involved agency jumped to conclusions regarding the cause of this discharge without first carefully examining the footage of the incident and providing SIG SAUER with an opportunity to assist in the examination of the involved firearm.
The P320 model firearm is used effectively and safely every day, by both civilians and armed professionals. Despite years of litigation and extensive discovery, no one has ever been able to replicate a condition under which the P320 could discharge without a trigger pull, and experts who have attempted to assert such a claim have been rep
[/QUOTE]
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LVSteve
Member
Seems I was right. Gun not properly in holster.
Yeah, we really can't expect firearms in L-I-II-III retention holsters NOT to discharge when jostled by duty bags. I mean, next we'll expect guns in retention holsters not to discharge when LEOs are wrestling with suspects on the ground, trying to arrest them. This way leads to madness, I say.
Could you prove that to those of us with merely human vision? Becasue I can't see it in/on/around the holster and I replayed it several times at 1/4 speed. Thanks.
[/QUOTE]
Assume the officer with the SIG P320 Premature Ejacu -ahem- Discharge Model had his L-II or L-III holster-hoodie in "access" position like SIG says. Should we expect the firearm in such a holster NOT to discharge when the officer bends down? Or not to discharge when the officer wrestles with a suspect who defeats the holster-hoodie, but not the next one or two levels of retention?
A lot of these arguments excusing SIG P320 "uncommanded" discharges really don't pass the sniff test, even assuming the arguments are true with 100% metaphysical certainty.
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kbm6893
Member
Already been debunked. The retention hood that is supposedly down is a tourniquet that is carried on the front of the holster. Sig is looking at a grainy photo and just making things up at this point. I have that exact holster for my Glock and M&P.
Full Breakdown of Montville PD's SIG P320 Incident and Response to SIG's Recent Statement - YouTube
In the Montville discharge situation, did the slide cycle normally after the discharge? Did that action kick open the holster retention strap? Does that show on the video?
LVSteve
Member
Interesting video. The carrying of tourniquet holder on a gun holster would never have occurred to me as I'm not in LE. It's pretty clear that Sig are talking rubbish about the retention strap having misidentified the strap for the tourniquet holder.
That said, the gun still looks high in the holster to me, even with the retention strap in the correct place. The stills in that video from other sources of the 320 in that holster show a bunch of clearance between the backplate of the gun and the inside of the strap. Yes, it will prevent your gun falling out, but I doubt it holds the gun all the way in the holster ensuring the trigger is covered. How does that work with your Glock and M&P?
I also noticed in the comments section for the video that several contributors claimed that this particular Safariland holster does not cover the trigger too well for the 320. Can you comment on that?
It strikes me that the Sig 320 (non-safety) design is vulnerable to any shortfall in holster design.
kbm6893
Member
I just tried to lightly holster both my Glock and Smith. If I lightly place the gun in there without locking it in, both guns wobble. I can’t imagine a cop would not notice that. Any movement and the gun would fall right out. The fact the weapon firing didn’t make the gun fall out seems impossible to me.
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Although the initial advertising for the P320 pictured a locking tab trigger, it has never been made available, and my understanding is that it will not be made available.
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I'm assuming this is with all of the variations of the 320 series? Is there documentation of the Compacts or Subcompacts going off? I know that sounds stupid, but it seems to me that the military should have a few of these "incidents" on record, as well.
I have a 320 Compact in the safe, chamber loaded. So far, no boom!
What's everyone's guess on the final outcome of this?
I have a 320 Compact in the safe, chamber loaded. So far, no boom!
What's everyone's guess on the final outcome of this?
LVSteve
Member
Don't all the military guns have a thumb safety?
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Good point. I think so.
So the discharge is directly related to the lack of the manual safety?
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