Sight for 627-2 for USPSA

[captainwayne]

I’m new to the competitive games and am working through some minor issues. Shooting S&W 38 special or Colt 38 shorts to make minor power factor. I think I’ve got that covered.
Next, is the sight. My gun for sure is better than I am for this, and I’m happy to have a quality gun to start with. Problem is it has a gold bead up front, solid black for the rear.
Where I shoot we end up shooting into the night, making target acquisition a bit tough.
I have used F/O front sights before with range work, but that doesn’t address the solid black issue.
Has anyone tried the front and rear FO sights that are offered now? It’s $150 or so. I almost don’t want to mess with this gun as it is the first 8 shot model made (I think) and have to respect its history as well as value.
Any input is appreciated!

 

[Tanners Owner]

Captainwayne- most of my set ups for either USPSA or IDPA have a bold front sight (FO or tritium) and a plain black rear. It helps me zero in quickly on the front sight.
Having FO or tritium on the rear often presents a cluttered sight picture FOR ME.
A compromise I’ve found that works for my carry guns are variations of the heinie straight 8 that have a bold front sight and a minimal dot or bar on the bottom of the rear.
But keep in mind, sights, like grips are a very subjective thing- what works for you may not work for me. Good luck & let us know what you decide upon.

 

[Protocall_Design]

On all my iron sight revos I have an orange front and green rear fiber optic. This helps me immensely in finding where the front and rear are in relation to each other on the draw, and during recoil between shots, especially in low light conditions like shade, evening, indoor range, etc. I still use the black iron part to aim with, the same as all black sights, but the fiber optics allow me to track the movement of the sights at all times, getting me on target quickly for every shot.

 

[Pizza Bob]

What works for me is a plain black rear sight and a FO front sight. I prefer a rear target blade, not the OE Smith rear sight. I use both LPA and Bowen Rough Country rears - I prefer the Bowen as it is a more rugged sight, but both present the same sight picture. Both of these use the holes already D&T'd in the top strap, so no modification to the gun is needed.

As for the FO front I prefer Dawson because they offer a wide variety of heights and widths. For quick target acquisition use a .100" wide front sight with the standard .125" rear notch. For more precision, a .125" wide blade with the same dimension rear notch works. I do have a HiViz on my 625 with the DX type interchangeable front sight. Only available in .125" width. With the Dawson's you can easily change/replace the light pipe. The HiViz FO element is encased in a resin - making it less susceptible to damage, but negating the ability to change to the light pipe only.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

 

[captainwayne]

For sure the gold bead has to go! The last stage I shot when I brought the gun up quickly to line up, I couldn't even find the front sight!
FO it is.
What diameter pipes do you recommend for USPSA, smaller or larger?
Thanks in advance

 

[Pizza Bob]

What diameter pipes do you recommend for USPSA, smaller or larger?

.100" - you want light on either side of the front post for quick target acquisition.

 

[Protocall_Design]

I like the .100 wide black post with a 1mm (.040") fiber. The smaller fiber still allows you to see a crisp outline of the post and fits in the rear notch better than the 1.5mm (.060") fiber.

 

[captainwayne]

Thanks guys. I messed up and got .10 pipes, not realizing you meant a .10 wide blade,which of course probably don’t fit ANY handgun. Of course I ordered them before reading your last posts.
I’ll try to find some locally.
Thank you again

 

[Protocall_Design]

I get them for my line of fiber optic sights from Fiber Optic Lighting. I only use green and orange, as those are the 2 brightest ones, but also stock red for those who want it.

 

[Kiwi cop]

I like the .100 wide black post with a 1mm (.040") fiber. The smaller fiber still allows you to see a crisp outline of the post and fits in the rear notch better than the 1.5mm (.060") fiber.

My experience with dots of any type is limited to my duty G17 (which has horrible tritium dots) and a few FO front sights I usually blacken out as I prefer plain black front and rear. But Toolguy’s S&W green/orange setup is the only one I have found where:

a) The dots are all the same size when sighting, and
b) When the dots are lined up and spaced properly the front sight is properly aligned and on target.

When I left his shop a few weeks ago one of his sets of S&W FO front and rear replacement sight blades for my 686-4 left with me

My advise? Spend $100 and get his replacement FO rear blade/front sight sets and keep your original ones so if you ever want to return your gun to factory spec you can.

PS: Toolguy probably won’t tell you this himself but having seen his trophy room and handling his own modified custom guns I’d recommend his advise on sights.

 

[Protocall_Design]

Thanks for the kind words, Brent. We enjoyed getting to know you both! Maybe someday we can come see you in NZ.

 

[captainwayne]

My experience with dots of any type is limited to my duty G17 (which has horrible tritium dots) and a few FO front sights I usually blacken out as I prefer plain black front and rear. But Toolguy’s S&W green/orange setup is the only one I have found where:

a) The dots are all the same size when sighting, and
b) When the dots are lined up and spaced properly the front sight is properly aligned and on target.

When I left his shop a few weeks ago one of his sets of S&W FO front and rear replacement sight blades for my 686-4 left with me

My advise? Spend $100 and get his replacement FO rear blade/front sight sets and keep your original ones so if you ever want to return your gun to factory spec you can.

PS: Toolguy probably won’t tell you this himself but having seen his trophy room and handling his own modified custom guns I’d recommend his advise on sights.

I didn't know SW offered front and back FO sights! the only i've found were about $150 on Amazon.
I will look into it for sure, as i need all the help I can get.

I'm humbled somewhat as I've always been a dead shot, with whatever weapon I used. Revolver, rifle, bow, even slingshot!
Yet, when joining USPSA, i find whatever skill I had was negligible. A welcome challenge!
Thanks!

 

[Kiwi cop]

I didn't know SW offered front and back FO sights! the only i've found were about $150 on Amazon.
I will look into it for sure, as i need all the help I can get.

I'm humbled somewhat as I've always been a dead shot, with whatever weapon I used. Revolver, rifle, bow, even slingshot!
Yet, when joining USPSA, i find whatever skill I had was negligible. A welcome challenge!
Thanks!

Toolguy makes his own replacement sight blades both front and rear for S&W revolvers. PM him for the details (can’t find his business cards right now).

Being a reasonable shot is always a good start with IPSC/USPSA, but where time works out to be an advantage over the accuracy and power components of DVC it can be a two edged sword.

You need to be accurate enough to hit the targets, fast misses don’t count, but fast enough to be competitive. And your gun needs to be powerful enough.

80% A/B zone hits is the standard to attain with none in the D zone. competition this will probably drop to 70% Alpha and 2% Delta hits.

I personally shoot major for the higher scoring C/D hits, as does our Classic/Single Stack National Champ (who is fast but often scores only 70% Alpha’s and gets a mike or two each stage). Most others shoot minor for the extra 2 rounds and faster shot to shot recovery.

Remember, slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Work on some drills between competitions and you will soon see some rapid improvements.

Right now I am 30 minutes from heading off to our Nationals. I’ll try to PM you later with some drills that have helped me immensely.

 

[captainwayne]

Drills?

Thank you so much for your insight.
As I said, I've always been able to hit nearly anything I've aimed at. But, this is different. As a beginner In USPSA, I started in production minor with my XDM for no reason at all, with no practice. The first 3 matches I averaged over 60 alphas and 1 mike with 70-72 shot stages, been nearly the slowest, but finished in the middle of the production class, and the middle of my age group, Super Senior. I was happy with that for sure. But of course in trying to speed up I changed too much of my sight alignment and even my grip somewhat, and ended up with lower finishes!
I'm a big guy, 6'7 260, and have been an athlete my whole life. Trying to put this together has been an amazing journey! I KNOW I can get good at this, and hope age and what goes along with it doesn't catch up to me.

I be happy to try any drills you feel appropriate. I've shot revolver for 4 practice matches, but there may be only 2 other guys shooting revo! And no one very good at it.
Thanks in advance
Wayne

 

[captainwayne]

Ordering the sights today from Tracy.
Kiwicop, Pizza Bob, Toolguy.
You are awesome!
BTW- Would love to see some drills I could work on!
Thanks in advance

 

[Protocall_Design]

The main drill to work on is to dryfire at a blank wall. You want to concentrate on keeping the front and rear sight aligned with each other, and be able to smoothly pull the trigger through without the sights moving. Practice holding still through the shot, just that fraction of a second till the bullet is on the target. It's easy to move to the next one too soon, then you miss. When you can execute these basics, you will have solid hits. If you are missing a lot, pause, rewind mentally back to the basics at the first of this paragraph and begin again. Then you will be back on track.


You will see the sights clearly and the target blurry. The second you shift your focus to the target, you will miss that one or have a poor hit. This is especially troublesome with reactionary targets - ones that move when you hit them. Things like falling plates, bowling pins, etc. The movement draws your attention and vision because it's instinctive to look at anything that moves. Then the next shot is a miss. Stay glued to the sights and be in the moment of THIS SHOT. Hit or miss, the last shot is history - don't think about it any more.

This is all very simple and basic. It is not so easy to actually do it. Shooting is a mental discipline. The better command you have of your thought processes, the better you will shoot.

 

[Kiwi cop]

Wayne,

Can you clear your PM box for a message?

 

[Kiwi cop]

Drills

Apologies for not getting this to you sooner. I was just back from the US and travelling to our IPSC handgun Nationals when I mentioned this in your thread. I did remember my promise but lost the thread it was in.

Firstly, great to see you bought Toolguy/Protocall Design’s sight. I spent an afternoon with him and his guns in his workshop in Kansas City and he knows what he is doing when it comes to dotsights. He and Tracey are very nice people.

Now for some drills.

First set a target up at 7 1/2 yards.

Very slowly draw an empty pistol, sight and dry fire on the target. Do this five times (I know Toolguy spoke of dry firing in your thread, this is just muscle memory).

Next load 5 rounds and make 5 draws from the holster, aim and fire. The goal is to get 5 A zone hits (sorry we shoot IPSC here and so those are the targets I’m used to) withour worrying about the time.

Next load another five rounds. Draw and fire 5 shots in a string using a timer to start. Take your time and get all A zone hits. After the 5th shot check the timer and work out your hit factor (score on paper divided by time = hits per second/HF). Don’t worry about the speed at this stage, just the A zone hits. This drill is for accuracy.

Next set your timer to a Par time of 3 1/2 seconds. Load another 5 rounds and do 5 X draw and shoot an A zone hit before the second beep.

Finally set the timer to a 4 second par time, and do 5 X draw and fire 2 A zone hits within that time.

If at any stage you miss the A zone on the target go back and reshoot the string until you get all A zone hits.

When you have finished this drill go and shoot something else. I like to try falling plates or set a 10” steel disk on a stand and work at hitting it out to 45 meters/50 yards starting close in and moving back in 5 meter increments. The aim for both is 1 shot one hit, smoothly not too fast that you miss.

When you can get all your shots away in the 3 1/2 and 4 seconds reduce your par times to 3 and 3 1/2 seconds.

Once you master this move back to 10 yards and start again with 3 1/2 and 4 second times, reducing again to 3 and 3 1/2 seconds.

Keep moving back in distance as you improve to 12 1/2 and then 15 yards.

Another drill is to set up 3 targets in a row 10 - 12 yards away and 1 yard apart. Draw, fire 2 rounds into each target with a goal of all A zone hits, reload and then fire another 2 rounds per target. Take note of the time it takes you and work out your hit factor. I like to attain a HF of above 3, but if I have a bad shot or two this can drop down to 2 1/2

As I shoot a 1911 I also add a 4th target to the last drill set at 45 degrees to the others out to one side. This is training for target acquisition.

That should keep you going for a while.

 

[captainwayne]

PM sent, ordering timer asap,
Can't thank you guys enough!

 

[captainwayne]

Going back over your advise, I found you said the target should be blurry, sights clear, focusing only on sights. Immediately this hits me as I've done the opposite, wearing distance assisting glasses, seeing the sights blurry, target clearly, lining up, shooting, then repeating.
This is such a basic concept that I haven't been aware of.
I'm taking the glasses off next time!