Sights

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I
I'm really not comfortable getting a primary arms dot because from what I can tell they are not shockproof.

.  I'm pretty sure I want the Primary Arms micro dot MD60L and Magpul flip up sights at 1/3rd co-witness. Not sure as to what riser I want though.

Primary Arms Micro Dot Gen 3 Toss/Drop Fun - YouTube

Get the removable base md06. If you want lower 1/3 get the inexpensive PA riser and don't play with the QD cuz it's junk. Forget the kill flash.

 

[JessicaB]

Primary Arms Micro Dot Gen 3 Toss/Drop Fun - YouTube

Get the removable base md06. If you want lower 1/3 get the inexpensive PA riser and don't play with the QD cuz it's junk. Forget the kill flash.

That will be the plan. Only worry is how my eyes will work with the red dot. I am hopefully going be looking at some red dots next Saturday but probably not any PAs. It won't be a PA but hopefully it will be similar. If the only issue is a blurry dot maybe it is something I could learn to deal with?

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

When you go Saturday to see if your vision agrees with a 1x red dot, don't worry about brand. What you want to test is different size dots. You should definitely take a look at the smallest dot, 1moa, and that will be on an EOTech. And see some some 3-5moa size dots. The PA Microdot is 3moa. Be sure to be wearing your long distance glasses. My guess is you'll probably prefer a 1-4x scope. Happy optics hunting.

 

[headcase650]

The eotech will not give the same results as a red dot. Look through one and consider buying one but don't use the results of the eotech to judge how your eyes will see a red dot, they are two different technologies. Eotech is a holographic sight, it projects lasers off a mirror onto a reticule etched holographic lens sandwiched between glass in the sight window that projects the reticule out in mid air in front of your view as if it was floating. Red dots don't work the same and use an emitter in a tube, light goes from the emitter to the lens to your eye. With my astigmatism an eotech looked perfect with or without corrective lenses, red dots looked fuzzy without my glasses or when looking through my glasses at an angle.

 

[trebor127]

buy once buy the best

EoTech

Keith

 

[JessicaB]

When you go Saturday to see if your vision agrees with a 1x red dot, don't worry about brand. What you want to test is different size dots. You should definitely take a look at the smallest dot, 1moa, and that will be on an EOTech. And see some some 3-5moa size dots. The PA Microdot is 3moa. Be sure to be wearing your long distance glasses. My guess is you'll probably prefer a 1-4x scope. Happy optics hunting.

As far as the scope what brand should I look for or can I get one with the PA red dot? I have single lenses so no bifocals. Would that make a difference? I see a PA magnifier so would that be what I want?

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

As far as the scope what brand should I look for or can I get one with the PA red dot? I have a single lens so no bifocals. Would that make a difference?

There are so many out there with tons of different reticles from illuminated to simple crosshairs it's difficult to recommend. If I wanted a 1-4x I would stay in the $200 and up category.

I'm not an eye expert I can only tell you what I hear folks complain about most often. And folks with eye issues tend to complain a lot about 1x red dot.... everything from comet tails to a clusters of grapes. You'll have to see for yourself.

--------------------------------

And by the way, here's what the EOTech manufacturer has to say about astigmatisms and eye issues with their sight. Also notice the comments about the size of the dot. As suggested earlier, take a look at different size dots.

Product FAQs

Why is my center dot not round?

Not everyone sees the center dot as a circle or sphere. If your dot does not appear to be perfectly round, the distortion may be caused by the way that your eye perceives the dot, rather than by some mechanical defect. Due to differences in the lenses in different individuals' eyes, round objects that subtend areas near 3 minutes of angle may appear distorted in a variety of ways depending on the individual and other environmental influences. Some may see the center dot like a hub of a bicycle wheel with spokes. If you see this in your sight, look closely at the dot and rotate the sight. If the spokes do not move, it is just how your eye perceives this dot. You can dim the sight and this may be eliminated.

My circle is fuzzy/hazy. Why is this?

That question about our reticle is common. What people usually see on-line or in advertisements are graphic representations of the reticle. What you are seeing is likely normal. The outer circle of the reticle is made up of hundreds of pixels (small dots that form together to make a larger image). This pixilation is key to being able to see the hologram properly, and is inherent in the technology. You should see the center dot as a single MOA.
A couple things might help make the image appear more distinct:

• If you see the image blurry, fuzzy, distorted, having a double image, or having a 'starburst' effect, this usually means the brightness intensity level is up too high for the lighting conditions you're using it in. Dim down the brightness until the reticle is slightly see-through. The outer circle is designed as your reference to center, and acts similar to a ghost ring.

• The reticle is projected out to your target plane. If you pick up a target that is very close (like a photo on the wall), your eyes might not focus properly on the image. Pick up sight pictures 25 to 30 yards out until you become accustomed to the sight. Try them at different eye reliefs, and certainly try these things once the sight is mounted on a weapon.

• If you require corrective lenses (glasses or contacts) to see things clearly at a distance, you will need them to see the reticle clearly. Remember, the reticle is actually projected out to your target plane, so you will see it like anything else at that distance. Also, if you have astigmatism or use bifocals, you may see the image less distinctly.

• Use the sight outdoors, and if possible at the range. Actually acquiring targets with the sight will help your eyes focus properly on the reticle.

Product FAQs | L-3 EOTech - Holographic Weapons Systems

 

[JessicaB]

Ahhh, I get it now. Okay now what would be the difference between a PA magnifier versus a riflescope if that's what I need? Riflescope or something else?

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Ahhh, I get it now. Okay now what would be the difference between a PA magnifier versus a riflescope if that's what I need? Riflescope or something else?

I'd pass on the magnifier.

These style optics are popular for low power fixed compact and variable magnification on AR platforms. There are a lot optics that fall into these two basic categories (many appear near identical) from various manufactures and sellers. Here are two that Burris offers with the AR in mind. Primary Arms also makes two optics similar to the below.

Another consideration is weight. A 1x red dot can weigh just a few ounces... but once you get into magnified optics you're looking at adding considerable more weight to your rifle.

1-4x Variable


3x Fixed Compact

 

[JessicaB]

Holy cow. Cannot afford something that expensive! Any around $100-$150 or so?

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Holy cow. Cannot afford something that expensive! Any around $100-$150 or so?

You need to do some looking around... Bushnell, Nikon, Millet, Primary Arms and others all make budget friendly optics. Names that I would be hesitant to buy are UTG, Leapers, Barska, BSA, Sightmark, NcStar (although some folks report good service from NcStar you really have to know what you're buying). If I was buying strictly on price and wanted the least worry (not going to break on day 1) I'd say Primary Arms is a good bet. Enjoy the hunt.

This should get you started but by no means is all that is out there.

https://www.primaryarms.com/Rifle-Scopes-s/911.htm

 

[JessicaB]

Is a red dot the same as a red dot riflescope or do I need to look for just a riflescope?

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Is a red dot the same as a red dot riflescope or do I need to look for just a riflescope?

Not sure what you are asking.

There are 1x red dots, and then there are magnified optics with etched glass illuminated reticles that sometimes have a dot in the center of the crosshair and all sorts of other reticle configurations. I think you need to get to a gun show, gun shop, big box retailer gun department, as well as visit a range and strike up conversation with other shooters and they'll show you what they got. You got to look through some optics.

 

[JessicaB]

The one I was looking at was the Cortex Strikefire red dot scope although I think it is discontinued or the same as a red dot. Anyway, I won't know how the dot looks until I look at 'em. I'm hoping that the sight picture will be tolerable and somewhat easy to see. I guess that's the best case scenario.

 

[IceStone]

I personally like the Chevron Reticle as I believe it offers the best of both worlds, the problem is finding a optic that has one. But as the example below shows, It is very large which makes it easy to pick up, but you also have the fine point which you can use for more precision. It also offers you some ranging benefits in the width of the outside and inside of the Chevron corresponding to the width of a mans torso as a particular range. This is from the Trijicon Tripower which is what I have on my 15-22.

 

[cxwrench]

That Trijicon is cool but I doubt there are many people that can justify spending the same on optics as they did on the rifle itself. I know some do, but considering the effective range of the 15-22 and the distance I'll be shooting the majority of the time...my TRS-25 works just fine. It's light, clear, and less than $100 w/ the mount.
I have a slight astigmatism and wear progressive bifocals. Works fine for me.

 

[SpicyTunaRoll]

i have the Leupold Delta Point on mine. its small, light weight, and a great investment i can always re-sell(with high resale value) or save and transfer into any other platform.
compared to my aimpoint mico h1 - its light years away, but the DP is simple. i pick up the weapon and the sensor turns on. i put it down, and it turns off in 5 mins.

optics are like tires. you dont want to buy a new car, a nice car, and mount the cheapest tires out there. the optic should match the rifle, and rifles' duty. i never understood those guys who have a $1000+ rifle and mount a $75 optic. its the equivalence of a New BMW 550i with toyota corolla rims/tires.

my advice: if you cant afford a good quality red-dot optic (aimpoint, eotech, Leupold) then just use irons while you save up your money. not only will you become very proficient in irons, but you'll eventually get a great optic. you will thank me later.

 

[Vinney47]

The one I was looking at was the Cortex Strikefire red dot scope although I think it is discontinued or the same as a red dot. Anyway, I won't know how the dot looks until I look at 'em. I'm hoping that the sight picture will be tolerable and somewhat easy to see. I guess that's the best case scenario.

The strikefire is discontinued, because vortex released a new version - the strikefire II. Right now prices on the original are super low as sellers blow them out and get in the new ones.

 

[headcase650]

If there is a Cabellas by you, go there. They have a large selection, draw a number, when they call it tell them you want to look through scopes, red dot and magnified. If they are not swamped they will spent plenty of time with you.They have dummy guns you can mount the sight on and look through it just as if you were using it. They should have some bushnells, vortex, redfields and a few other red dots and a pretty big selection of magnified optics and maybe some eotechs too.

 

[BlueLizard]

Regarding the astigmatism/red-dot bunch of grapes issue, I've had corneal grafts in both eyes, and have had a fair deal of corneal scaring in my time, causing all manner of flaring when looking at dots

Touch-wood, it's pretty much okay now, and I'm a happy user of Eotech XPS2-0's on a couple of my rifles. I always have the dot brightness set as low as possible (easier on an indoor range, out of bright sunlight). Up close (10m or so), in speedy competitions, the flaring isn't much of a problem as the target/sight picture is pretty big anyway. Further out, I simply flip up my rear MBUS and have an absolute co-witness aligning peep hole which nicely sharpens up the dot. For distance, I also have an Eo G33 magnifier which is crystal clear with the XPS circle/dot. Only need one magnifier as it easily QD's off one and onto the other (I keep the same top-rail setup between my 15-22 and 9mm carbine).

 

[JessicaB]

That Trijicon is cool but I doubt there are many people that can justify spending the same on optics as they did on the rifle itself. I know some do, but considering the effective range of the 15-22 and the distance I'll be shooting the majority of the time...my TRS-25 works just fine. It's light, clear, and less than $100 w/ the mount.
I have a slight astigmatism and wear progressive bifocals. Works fine for me.

I can understand what you are saying. I can't afford to spend a fortune myself. I am just hoping that I can tolerate the sight picture. If not I don't know what I'll do. And considering that I'm not going to shoot past 75-100 yards I don't think I need anything too expensive. Like I said, I'm hoping my sight picture won't be too bad and tolerable.

 

[Racefan3n88]

Put a bushnell trs-25 on it, you won't be disappointed. They are under $100 and are ideal for the 15-22, small and light. IMO it makes no sense to put a high dollar optic on a 22 rifle. If you need a scope the bug buster scope works well also. It fits the tactical look of the rifle and gets good reviews. Save your money for more ammo

 

[JessicaB]

Put a bushnell trs-25 on it, you won't be disappointed. They are under $100 and are ideal for the 15-22, small and light. IMO it makes no sense to put a high dollar optic on a 22 rifle. If you need a scope the bug buster scope works well also. It fits the tactical look of the rifle and gets good reviews. Save your money for more ammo

Completely understood. The only concern is my stupid eyes and how my astigmatism will affect the sight.

 

[cyphertext]

i have the Leupold Delta Point on mine. its small, light weight, and a great investment i can always re-sell(with high resale value) or save and transfer into any other platform.
compared to my aimpoint mico h1 - its light years away, but the DP is simple. i pick up the weapon and the sensor turns on. i put it down, and it turns off in 5 mins.

optics are like tires. you dont want to buy a new car, a nice car, and mount the cheapest tires out there. the optic should match the rifle, and rifles' duty. i never understood those guys who have a $1000+ rifle and mount a $75 optic. its the equivalence of a New BMW 550i with toyota corolla rims/tires.

my advice: if you cant afford a good quality red-dot optic (aimpoint, eotech, Leupold) then just use irons while you save up your money. not only will you become very proficient in irons, but you'll eventually get a great optic. you will thank me later.

The car analogy works the other way too... you wouldn't buy a Toyota Corolla and put wheels and tires on it that cost more than the car, yet do nothing to enhance the performance.

I appreciate quality optics, but an Aimpoint, Trijicon, or any other high end red dot is overkill on a M&P 15-22. Yes, I get the trainer idea blah blah blah, but if you were going that route, go with a dedicated upper that goes on your AR 15 lower, so that now you have same weight, same trigger, easier to add the same accessories, etc.

If you have the coin and just want to put these type of things on your plastic plinker, then go for it... but as you said, "the optic should match the rifle, and rifles' duty".

 

[SpicyTunaRoll]

If you have the coin and just want to put these type of things on your plastic plinker, then go for it.

while some might view this rifle as just a "plastic plinker" - i personally view it as just another rifle in the collection.
YES i know it only shoots a small .22lr, slowly.
BUT this rifle can be quickly handed to family member who is unable(or unwilling) to sustain a normal .223/556 rifles weight & recoil = and that family member is now more combat effective with this plastic-plinker, than if they had a 'normal' ar in their hands. this is why i treat this rifle as i would any other. it gets the same care, attention, and accessories as any other weapon. i would rather wait and save, than buy cheap accessories that will stifle my precision.

(end rant. just food for thought)

 

[RedNeck Jim]

The only concern is my stupid eyes and how my astigmatism will affect the sight.

I have the same issue which forces me to shoot left handed. The same condition makes it hard for me to use magnified scopes. I just sometimes struggle to get a good sight picture.

However, with a red dot, I have no issues... besides still needing to shoot left handed. I have no problem quickly acquiring the target. I have removed my backup folding sights as I just never use them. My old eyes don't sight thru them well & they just take up rail space. For me and my eyes, a red dot is the best option & when I need magnification, I add on my flip to side 3x Primary Arms magnifier.

I suggest starting with a TRS-25. It is a great optic at a great price. Then if you later find a little more jingle in your pocket, then you can add something like the Aimpoint Pro that I use... and love.

I have a TRS-25 sitting around & if you wish, I can send it to you to try out, assuming you don't have access to one locally. Send me a PM if you want to do so.

 

[JessicaB]

I have the same issue which forces me to shoot left handed. The same condition makes it hard for me to use magnified scopes. I just sometimes struggle to get a good sight picture.

However, with a red dot, I have no issues... besides still needing to shoot left handed. I have no problem quickly acquiring the target. I have removed my backup folding sights as I just never use them. My old eyes don't sight thru them well & they just take up rail space. For me and my eyes, a red dot is the best option & when I need magnification, I add on my flip to side 3x Primary Arms magnifier.

I suggest starting with a TRS-25. It is a great optic at a great price. Then if you later find a little more jingle in your pocket, then you can add something like the Aimpoint Pro that I use... and love.

I have a TRS-25 sitting around & if you wish, I can send it to you to try out, assuming you don't have access to one locally. Send me a PM if you want to do so.

I am planning to look at optics this Saturday. Probably won't buy any but at least get to look at them and handle them a bit. My two possibilities right now are the TRS-25 and the Primary Arms MicroDot but I'm not sure. I am also thinking about buying a set of Magpul flip up sights to co-witness but not sure about that as well. BTW, I shoot left handed as well so not sure how that is going to affect the optic.

 

[cyphertext]

while some might view this rifle as just a "plastic plinker" - i personally view it as just another rifle in the collection.
YES i know it only shoots a small .22lr, slowly.
BUT this rifle can be quickly handed to family member who is unable(or unwilling) to sustain a normal .223/556 rifles weight & recoil = and that family member is now more combat effective with this plastic-plinker, than if they had a 'normal' ar in their hands. this is why i treat this rifle as i would any other. it gets the same care, attention, and accessories as any other weapon. i would rather wait and save, than buy cheap accessories that will stifle my precision.

(end rant. just food for thought)

So, you have a family member who uses this rifle for home defense... How does the Aimpoint, or Trijicon, or anything other high dollar optic increase their "combat effectiveness" over a TRS-25 or a Primary Arms red dot at across the room distances?

 

[RedNeck Jim]

BTW, I shoot left handed as well so not sure how that is going to affect the optic.

The optic could care less which side of the gun you place your face.

 

[JessicaB]

The optic could care less which side of the gun you place your face.

Shoulda figured that out myself! What is the difference between a TRS-25 and PA MicroDot anyway? Can't seem to understand I guess.