Silencer question.....

[rwsmith]

Ok, you have a pistol that is a Browning tilting barrel design like a 1911. You put a silencer on the end of the barrel that is made of metal, so it has some weight to it. When you fire a shot, the barrel cams down and the muzzle pops up and goes back down as the slide moves forward. All of the silencer's weight is on the muzzle of the barrel.

Wouldn't this put a strain on the operation of the gun, at least causing more wear in the camming mechanism?

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

You made a correct observation! In WWII 1911's were silenced using a 8 to 10 inch barrel that was drilled with usually 4 rows of 8 or more 1/8" holes near the muzzle end. A bushing was fitted and dropped on and the silencer was build permanently on the barrel. This would fit any GI slide. The accuracy was about double sized of an unsilenced gun, the bulk and weight were also about double. The service life of those early silencers was estimated to be 200 rounds, then return the original barrel or a new silenced barrel. That is why the OSS went with the High Standard. The most famous of which was serial number 007, Gary Powers had it on him when shot down over Russia.

Ivan

(I had a very good book on the development and manufacture of silencers, that I loaned the Columbus, Ohio Police Ordinance section in the early 80's . They were willing to reimburse me, but not return the book!)

 

[jag312]

I fired a 1911 with a Sionics silencer many years ago. The weight of the silencer prevented the barrel from unlocking from the slide. The slide had to be manually operated for each shot. Interesting gun, but not easy to shoot one-handed. I figured to make it work well, the barrel/slide/recoil spring would have to be re-engineered to make the gun operate as a blowback.

 

[jengelguns]

Modern silencers use a Nielson device which acts like a shock absorber and allows the barrel to unlock properly.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QewB1jCNwzw[/ame]

 

[Tyrod]

Suppressors can be problematic on some guns. Not only can the weight of the suppressor cause difficulties on swinging link Browning designs but since there is additional backpressure which causes easier cycling of recoil mechanisms. A weaker recoil spring may be necessary on semiauto guns with suppressors attached.

Dipping your toe in the suppressor world is exciting and rewarding. It's also kinda expensive and time consuming. Not only the cost of the suppressor, but then the cost of a new barrel which is long enough to be threaded, but then any power piston you may or may not want to utilize (which may or may not mitigate the necessity of a weaker recoil spring). Then, after you decide to pay the $200 tax there's the interminable wait. My most recent can took 49 weeks to get approval.

I was sincerely hoping the Hearing Protection Act would pass which would have made the whole suppressor purchase experience much easier. But, now it seems as if the HPA is starting to slide down the priority list of the pro-gun agenda.

It's kinda ironic that in some countries in Europe where guns are highly restricted that buying a suppressor is no harder than buying a can of tuna.

 

[rwsmith]

Thanks,

I watched vids where some silenced guns worked like gangbusters (I think one was a Beretta) but it didn't say anything about adjustments or possible extra wear.

Silencers are something that I really don't need to get into, it just made me wonder if it's always as simple as threading a gadget onto your barrel. I suppose that my blowback operated Ket tec subgun Gen 2000 would readily take a silencer since the barrel is fixed. A 9mm carbine isn't that worrisome on noise anyway.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

. A 9mm carbine isn't that worrisome on noise anyway.

As compared to? I have an RPB MAC-10 9mm suppressor with subsonic ammo. The noise that is noticeable to the normal/unaided ear was these three items. 1) The sound of the action cycling and loading the next round. In full auto this was about as notice able as shacking your hand in your pocket, with a slight low pitch metallic ring to it. 2) The sound of the projectile impacting the target. The is highly variable! Shooting steel plated with full auto was very similar to a School Bell ringing. Shooting tree stumps in the spring semi-auto sounded like a slap to the face. A wet bale of straw was almost soundless! 3) The empty shell casings landing on the floor or ground. Again it depends on the surface and number of shoots fired. I remember one August, firing at a steel target in the back yard. A semi-auto shot at 25 to 50 yards, all three sounds were separate and distinct to me. The most interesting was the brass rustling in the dry grass!

No matter what; these noises will be present to some degree! Add to that the sonic crack of standard velocity 9mm ammo, it is quite noticeable at 25-50 yards. However the practice in WWII and since is to "mask" these noises with normally occurring noise, like a vehicle driving by, or a flock of birds landing.

I made threaded adapters to connect the same suppressor to my semi-auto Mini-14 and later to an AR-15. The sound from this large bodied suppressor firing 223/5.56 is about equal to firing one shot of high velocity 22 LR! No big boom! I shot along side suppressed center fire shooters and their much smaller "cans" didn't contain all of the boom.

All in all, it is an expensive lesson to learn.

One of the items that needs address is accuracy! in the 60's and 70's the best suppressors doubled the group size of pistols and rifles AT THE MINIMUM! Now, I have watched internet tape that I trust and seen 338 Lapua mag rifles shoot at 1000 to 1700 yards more accurately suppressed than without the can. It has to do with gas turbulence caused by the last baffle! Computer design and Fluid Mechanics are amazing! But some suppressors are more expensive that a good sniper rifle! And you won't know until you put a design of can through a test with the ammo and rifle you are using! I have yet to see/hear one of the $1200-1500 suppressors be as quit as my 1960's designed RPB 9mm, but I've not been around the really good large suppressors! Research from the late 60's thru 80's suggested there is a ratio of total suppressor volume to rifle barrel volume, of a minimum of 3:1. A pop can size suppressor just isn't going to perform! But a 2 liter jug works well once (on the internet!)

If you want to know more look up work done by Hyrum Maxim and William Godfray De Lisle.

Ivan

 

[jag312]

.....after you decide to pay the $200 tax there's the interminable wait. My most recent can took 49 weeks to get approval.

49 WEEKS!!! I hope I don't have to wait for the transfer papers for my Lanchester. I guess the approval might come in time for Christmas.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

In 1983, the transfer wait was 7 months. This was in the beginning of the Reagan years. The waiting got down to around 3 or 4 month around 1986 (Lightning fast for a transfer!) I heard talk that personal transfers for LEO's got down to 2 or 3 months back then and Class 3 dealer transfers were about one month!

Ivan

 

[Tom S.]

49 WEEKS!!! I hope I don't have to wait for the transfer papers for my Lanchester. I guess the approval might come in time for Christmas.

I sent in papers July 12th of last year. They've been approved, but still waiting for the stamps.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I've got a couple rimfire cans. Last one I purchased was in 2013. Took about 5-6 months IIRC. I'm addicted to suppressed rimfire shooting.

Haven't given much thought to suppressed centerfire handguns but in the past few years I've noticed a lot of manufactures offering 'suppressor-ready' handguns in their lineup.

 

[PPS1980]

My transfer was almost precisely 9 months (got it in March). Far too long given instant background checks, CCW holder, etc. Just more typical government inefficiency. But I got my can at my local range (extra $30 over the cheapest place) so I was able to use it on-site for the entire 9 months!

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

When I lived on the farm, back in the later 80's, I would put the can on the Mini-14 and chase the cats around the back yard. Blow a 6" divot out of the ground right behind the cats! If you don't hurt a cat they get used to anything! After 5 to 10 minutes they would quit running! They were already used to 22 target rifle fire, I would have to cease fire during target practice as the cats would just walk right through my firing lane! We usually had around 5+ adult cats and sometimes 20 kittens and adolescents. The wildlife would eat 15 to 20 cats a year and road traffic would get about 3 a year. So you see, I didn't want to loose any extra to rifle fire! But it was fun to see them run!!!

I got rid of the mini-14 and got an AR-15, It was several years before I had an adapter for the AR, and we were down to just 2 cats (they at the neighbors farms and refused to hunt mice!) but I didn't want to scare them off. The ground hogs never knew what hit them no matter what you used, But as more city people moved in the area, noise reduction was helpful for good relations!

Ivan

 

[BigBoy99]

You are correct in your observations. Adding the mass of the suppressor to the muzzle of a firearm which has a barrel which is part of the recoiling process affects the firing process. This is why suppressor work so well on weapons which have a fixed barrel. I have a single .22 cal suppressor but I have threaded barrels on four different fixed barrel .22 pistols (S&W422, Whitney Wolverine, S&W22 and Walther P22) and it works great on all of them.