Single action mod 14?

[richrd]

Back in the 70's I saw a m14 bullseye gun that was single action only. Did Smith build these this way or did someone pull the da guts out for some reason?

 

[18robert]

s&w did build some that way and also sold kits so the owner could do it them selves. a letter tells all.

 

[RSinOR]

I've got a 14 that came from the factory as SAO. Great shooting wheelgun.

 

[DWalt]

Yes, there were some Model 14 SAOs made. Probably many more were later conversions. Unless you have the original box which is labeled as being a SAO, a letter would be needed to see if it was shipped as a factory original SAO or is a later conversion. I do not know if a factory original SAO would have any significant value premium over an ordinary Model 14 or not.

 

[JP@AK]

SAO was a factory option on the K-38 Masterpiece Model 14 from 1961 until 1978. The SCSW says until 1982, but Roy told me directly that the option was dropped in 1978.

So, the SAO could show up on the 14-1, 14-2 and 14-3. The earliest known shipment was two 14-1 units on June 28, 1961.

I own two of them, both 14-3, that shipped in the summer of 1973 and are less than 200 numbers apart. Here's a picture of one of them and a picture of the box label.

As others have stated, S&W also sold a conversion kit as an accessory.

 

[richrd]

Thanks for the info. But why, you can get a good sa trigger pull with the da parts still in there, so what is gained?

 

[gmborkovic]

Did the SAO break different? Was the hand different?

 

[Model19man]

Thanks for the info. But why, you can get a good sa trigger pull with the da parts still in there, so what is gained?

Exactly right. I would rather have the option of both.

 

[maxfam]

Single action revolvers can be shipped to California. If it’s single action, then it’s a single action. Doesn’t need to be on CA’s blessed list.
How To Import Off Roster S&W to California!! Instructions - Calguns.net

 

[rct269]

For all you youngsters out there------------------------

The original name of the SAO K-38 (single action only) was the SHORT ACTION SINGLE ACTION K-38. That said, I reckon there's no need to praise the benefits of a short action (for the best of the best Bullseye shooters)----and all the rest of them who hope (and pray) to become one of those rare birds one day------------------and the sooner the better!!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Chuck24]

Here is my factory SAO 14-1. I have since obtained the correct stocks, need to do new pictures

 

[Bullet Bob]

"Exactly right. I would rather have the option of both."

Fortunately it's not against the law to have more than one K38 Masterpiece.

All of mine are great, but the SAO is the best.

 

[toroflow1]

I bought one new in 1980 from Montgomery Wards in CA. It had been sold, then returned when the buyer said the gun didn't work/cycle double-action! It's box has the "SA" written on the label. I believe it was $189 then.

 

[6string]

There's a lot of information about short actions, single actions, etc. and their significance for Bullseye target shooting on this forum.
The search function on this forum actually works really, really well. (Not always the case with some forums!)

But, to give you a brief summary, it's not about the trigger pull or weight, it's not about the lock time. It's about the much shorter arc of the hammer to bring it to full cock. If you have any familiarity with the Bullseye game, you know that 2/3rds of the match are conducted under timed or rapid fire constrictions. This means five well aimed shots at an X ring less than 2" in diameter at 25 yards within 20 seconds (timed fire) or 10 seconds (rapid fire). You must shoot with one hand, bring the sights back on target, cock the hammer, and squeeze off each shot one by one. Maintaining a consistent hold, with a consistent placement on the trigger is quite the feat of dexterity when you have to cock the hammer for each shot.

When S&W dropped the option, it was pretty much because most bullseye shooters had switched to using semiautos. Incidentally, around the same time the NRA changed the match rules to also allow the use of optical sights instead of the older requirement for strictly iron sights.
Bullseye is still a tough game, no matter what gun(s) you choose. But, it's a lot more demanding with an iron sighted revolver!

 

[jcelect]

SAO

Any S&W revolver can be made SAO by removing the DA sear. This is done by removing the hammer and drift out the pin holding the DA sear. On a SAO model 14 the hammer face is not cut to hold the DA sear. This was done on the guns shipped SAO and on the kits that allow the owner to convert the gun.
jcelect

 

[kscharlie]

Here is one of the two first known SA Model 14-1s shipped June 28, 1961 to Texas Gun Clinic, Houston, Texas, as mentioned above in Jack's post. This was the second S&W revolver that I purchased back in 2015.

 

[6string]

Any S&W revolver can be made SAO by removing the DA sear. This is done by removing the hammer and drift out the pin holding the DA sear. On a SAO model 14 the hammer face is not cut to hold the DA sear. This was done on the guns shipped SAO and on the kits that allow the owner to convert the gun.
jcelect

This is not entirely true. While it results in a revolver that functions only as a single action, it does not result in the desired outcome described in my post above.

"But, to give you a brief summary, it's not about the trigger pull or weight, it's not about the lock time. It's about the much shorter arc of the hammer to bring it to full cock. If you have any familiarity with the Bullseye game, you know that 2/3rds of the match are conducted under timed or rapid fire constrictions. This means five well aimed shots at an X ring less than 2" in diameter at 25 yards within 20 seconds (timed fire) or 10 seconds (rapid fire). You must shoot with one hand, bring the sights back on target, cock the hammer, and squeeze off each shot one by one. Maintaining a consistent hold, with a consistent placement on the trigger is quite the feat of dexterity when you have to cock the hammer for each shot."


The orientation and geometry of the sear on the trigger and the notch in the hammer are totally different than the conventional trigger and hammer. That is why the two parts were sold together in the kit offered by S&W.
Again, the idea is to get the hammer to full cock at less than the degree of arc as typically seen.
Besides this being a characteristic the "short action single action" model 14, it was also a characteristic of the target conversion work performed by King Gun Sight on modified S&W and Colt target revolvers!

 

[richrd]

Thanks 6string. When I shot bullseye, most shot the .45 for center-fire. One less gun to buy and learn.

 

[jcelect]

This is not entirely true. While it results in a revolver that functions only as a single action, it does not result in the desired outcome described in my post above.

I was only trying to inform members on how to determine if a mod 14 is Factory SAO or one produced by Bubba's Gun Shop with a visual inspection. The hammer face can be seen from the top of the revolver with the hammer in full cock.
jcelect

 

[gkitch]

Current use

I've been using a factory SA Model 14 for bullseye revolver matches. The CMP now has a distinguished revolver category and the single-action-only K-38 remains a perfect choice.

Very much enjoyed shooter her at Camp Perry this year.

 

[chief38]

I understand some people prefer different things in life. Exactly WHY some like SAO or DAO I will NEVER understand! Why not just have the choice?? The Revolver's are still basically the same except with limited functioning.

I could never understand why someone would limit a perfectly functioning Revolver. Want to shoot double action - just pull the trigger. Want single action - just cock the hammer.

 

[cadmike]

Please help me understand how sao works on these model 14’s.

With the hammer down, if you pull the trigger what exactly happens? Is the trigger locked in place or does it move and reset without actuating the hammer?

 

[rct269]

When you pull the trigger (in double action) on a SAO K-38, the cylinder revolves to the next chamber----period.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[cadmike]

When you pull the trigger (in double action) on a SAO K-38, the cylinder revolves to the next chamber----period.

Ralph Tremaine

Ok, now I understand. Makes sense. Thanks for that explanation.

 

[Kinman]

This is not entirely true. While it results in a revolver that functions only as a single action, it does not result in the desired outcome described in my post above.

"But, to give you a brief summary, it's not about the trigger pull or weight, it's not about the lock time. It's about the much shorter arc of the hammer to bring it to full cock. If you have any familiarity with the Bullseye game, you know that 2/3rds of the match are conducted under timed or rapid fire constrictions. This means five well aimed shots at an X ring less than 2" in diameter at 25 yards within 20 seconds (timed fire) or 10 seconds (rapid fire). You must shoot with one hand, bring the sights back on target, cock the hammer, and squeeze off each shot one by one. Maintaining a consistent hold, with a consistent placement on the trigger is quite the feat of dexterity when you have to cock the hammer for each shot."


The orientation and geometry of the sear on the trigger and the notch in the hammer are totally different than the conventional trigger and hammer. That is why the two parts were sold together in the kit offered by S&W.
Again, the idea is to get the hammer to full cock at less than the degree of arc as typically seen.
Besides this being a characteristic the "short action single action" model 14, it was also a characteristic of the target conversion work performed by King Gun Sight on modified S&W and Colt target revolvers!

I have had a SAO Model 14 as well as a standard Model 14 Target Masterpiece. I am certainly no expert but do recognize that mine came with its proper box and was marked SAO as was the box above. I never gave Bullseye a chance and consider myself only competent with a handgun. For a while I had both handguns in possession and found the difference slight, but gave the nod to the SAO as far as which one shot better in my hands. I had friends that thought something was broke, because it would advance the cylinder on double action but not operate the hammer. It was fun to mess with someone that shoots double action. I have a buddy that shoots better double action with everything I hand him than I can single action, I hate him. Its not often I get to mess with him and that was fun...he figured it out quick enough, but had never heard of it before.