small pistol primer in Blazer Brass 45 ACP

[sunday bill]

Posted this on another thread a day or so ago and got little response.

I'm aware it's for igniting the powder but does anyone know CCI's reason for the small primer in recent 45 ACP Blazer Brass loads?

 

[growr]

Often has to do with it being Non-Toxic. If so it will be marked NT on the cartridge. Many throw them away, I reload them and use small pistol primers instead........
Randy

 

[TSQUARED]

I believe the small pistol primers used in 45 ACP cases are of the lead free variety. I loaded a few cases using my nomal load of WST with a 185 gr. LSWC. The velocity difference was insignificant in my very limited test. However I consign these brass cases to the scrap heap since it would require changing the primer feed assembly on my Dillon 550.

If I had a large supply of small pistol primed 45 ACP cases available I would do further testing and determine their useability.

 

[mistergizmo]

Federal is doing this in their NT (non-toxic) frangible .45 acp product, Speer and Winchester also.

+1 - Agree that they are a PITA if you're using a progressive loader. Primer explosions can happen when you force a large pistol primer into a small primer pocket.

Some of the shooters will use small rifle primers or small pistol primers in these cases, but you've got to have a lot of them to make it worthwhile.

 

[sunday bill]

The mess that could result from a case with a small primer pocket getting mixed in with my usual ACPs when loading on the XL 650 would be a show-nuff PITA. Wouldn't mind loading a few on the Rockchucker to compare accuracy, possibly start a few civil arguments, etc., etc., but with only 50 in hand, you're right, it aint worthwhile.

Since I can't find "NT", any mention of frangibility, or any other unusual stamping on box or brass, does this not mean that any time I buy a box of factory ammo with intent to keep the brass, I'd better ask to inspect the primers?

If anyone wants to horde up a bunch and experiment with'em, I'll get my 50 in your hands.

 

[mistergizmo]

If you're buying Speer, Winchester or Federal .45 acp ammo, I'd ask to see the primers. Speer doesn't headstamp any revealing information, but Winchester and Federal both show the "NT" on the head.

Last year I sold several thousand of the small primer cases from Alabama to Alaska at 2 cents each plus shipping. I came into those cases from the local police department who did all their qualifications with the frangible/non-toxic ammo.

The listmembers I sold them to couldn't get large pistol primers, but were able to locate small rifle and pistol primers. The ammo was used for plinking and hunting, nothing where precision marksmanship was required.

 

[Lasor1]

I know this is an older thread in the small primers in blazer brass.

Hey there, I stumbled across this old thread on small primers in 45 auto in the cci blazer brass ammo. I was just wondering if they went back to only large pistol primer ammo. The reason I ask is I have probably owned a 45 for about 3.5 yrs now. And I have bought lots of the blazer brass ammo in 230gr rn 45 auto ammo and have never ran across any of them having small pistol primed cases. I have bought from multiple stores. Just wondering. I do know there is some small pistol 45 brass out there just haven't ran into it on 45 blazer brass.

 

[Ballistic147]

A friend of mine just gave me 50 pieces of 45 Blazer Brass that he recently bought. All were the small primer. No biggie, I've loaded quite a few with no issues and they shoot just like brass with the large primer. Only downside is you do have to sort your brass. The Federal brass marked "NT" is a small primer and best I can tell the primer is also crimped like military stuff. I've run into these in both 45 and 40S&W. Some the primer will go right in but others need the crimp removed. The Blazer does not use a crimp.

 

[Snoopz]

as mentioned by others, non-toxic lead free rounds are mostly loaded with small pistol primers.
and as far as I have seen and others have said it is Small primers..

..."lead free priming" when reloading "may have slightly less pressure", be aware when mixing for target loads, as per Speer #14. I had emailed them when I first noticed them and they sent a response back in regards to the above along with a pdf file copy of the pages from the manual. Only thing I have noticed is the POI was a "little" lower, when mixed large pistol / small pistol primed,(same charge of 231) the groups opened up more vertical not that much horizontally, now I didn't do extensive testing, just firing via a Ransom Rest, nothing dramatic, didn't have a chrono so don't know the velocity or the ES. I do reload both and just keep them separate..and yes there are a PITA, if you mix them, when I reload 9's is when I do the SP 45's

an ole thread revived....
-Snoopz

 

[Vortec MAX]

I bought 24 boxes of the Blazer Brass 230 GR FMJ from an online supplier a few months ago, and they all had small primer pockets.

Given the source, I suspect these are newly manufactured.

Mike

 

[fredj338]

It simple, cost. 1M x anything is a lot. They may save 1/4 of a penny per round going small primer. It started out as NT priming but then someone did the math.

 

[Magload]

I only load the 45 with small primers. The indoor range sorts them out of their saved brass as they don't load small primers. So they save them for me and I don't have to change my primer bar. What is a pita is when you get a large by mistake and the small primer just falls out dumping the powder. Most of the time I feel the difference put miss one now and then. All my chrono test doesn't show any difference.

 

[fredj338]

I only load the 45 with small primers. The indoor range sorts them out of their saved brass as they don't load small primers. So they save them for me and I don't have to change my primer bar. What is a pita is when you get a large by mistake and the small primer just falls out dumping the powder. Most of the time I feel the difference put miss one now and then. All my chrono test doesn't show any difference.

HA! Actually the opp is true for the rest of us. Missing the sp case in your case fed progressive is a true PITA, but I keep sized/deprimed cases on hand for that event. SP cases were invented by liberal been counters, just sayin.

 

[Magload]

All I say is I hate changing out that primer bar. Maybe I should go to hand priming as I have a lot of large primer brass. I also hate when I switch and the feed tube is still over half full. Bad enough to have to empty the tube to switch back and forth between rifle and pistol. I guess I have just got lazy in my old age.

 

[Engineer1911]

Hey there, I stumbled across this old thread on small primers in 45 auto in the cci blazer brass ammo. I was just wondering if they went back to only large pistol primer ammo. The reason I ask is I have probably owned a 45 for about 3.5 yrs now. And I have bought lots of the blazer brass ammo in 230gr rn 45 auto ammo and have never ran across any of them having small pistol primed cases. I have bought from multiple stores. Just wondering. I do know there is some small pistol 45 brass out there just haven't ran into it on 45 blazer brass.

You have been blessed for never seeing SP 45 ACP brass. I reload at a public range using a Dillon 650 progressive press. I spent over 15 hours (3 days) loading 2K rounds of 45 ACP using range brass. On the last day out of sheer disgust, I hand sorted the last 500 pieces to get rid of small primer brass. I used CCI primers, small or large, and did not change the anything else.

Mixed primer brass in a Dillon 650 can reduce the production rate down to 150 rounds per hour. The only solution was to carefully hand sort the brass. I bought a 5 gallon bucket of SP brass for $1.20 / pound. I'm going to shoot it at an outdoor range and leave the **** for someone else to enjoy.

I can easily make 700 rounds per hour with either 9MM or 40 S&W with good brass.

 

[scooter123]

Personally I find having some small pistol 45 ACP cases on hand to be an advantage. Because there have been times when finding LP primers wasn't possible. In addition the ONLY Large Pistol caliber I reload is the 45 ACP so I am normally set up for priming with Small Primers. By keeping both sizes I have a fallback in the event of another component shortage/panic. Note, I've learned from past panics and now make sure to keep at least a 2 year supply of components on hand at all times.

 

[fredj338]

You have been blessed for never seeing SP 45 ACP brass. I reload at a public range using a Dillon 650 progressive press. I spent over 15 hours (3 days) loading 2K rounds of 45 ACP using range brass. On the last day out of sheer disgust, I hand sorted the last 500 pieces to get rid of small primer brass. I used CCI primers, small or large, and did not change the anything else.

Mixed primer brass in a Dillon 650 can reduce the production rate down to 150 rounds per hour. The only solution was to carefully hand sort the brass. I bought a 5 gallon bucket of SP brass for $1.20 / pound. I'm going to shoot it at an outdoor range and leave the **** for someone else to enjoy.

I can easily make 700 rounds per hour with either 9MM or 40 S&W with good brass.

Keep sized/deprimed cases on hand, takes but 4-5 sec to swap out at stn 2. It slows you down, but not even close to 150rds per hour, well maybe if more than 1/2 your brass is sp.

 

[DTL]

I never end up with enough of the small primer brass to be worthwhile for reloading. Instead, I keep a few around and use them for things like setup for presses and tuning extractors, etc.