Murdock
Member
The bubbas at the LGS told me yesterday that one of the principal suppliers they rely upon for small pistol primers called them and offered to buy back any and all small primers they had in stock for retail price.
Small Pistol Primers. The New Drought
- Thread starter Murdock
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cmj8591
Member
The reality for us now is that we can not depend on the supply chain to provide ammo and components as we need it. I decided during the last interruption to try and be proactive. Not panic buy, but stock up so that I could enjoy shooting and competing without interruption. I bought several thousand primers of various sizes, bullets, powder, rimfire and whatever ammo I found at a good price. My goal was to have enough to go for six months without running out. I ended up with enough to go for about 10 months without changing the amount of shooting I do. Now the goal is to replenish what I use from my stash. There's no panic about it and because I had a plan, I have enough so that I can walk away from the price gougers and buy on my terms whatever I happen to run accross. Even when this drought ends, if you like to shoot you can not depend on going down to the big box on Friday and buying a couple of boxes to shoot on Saturday. That's just the reality of the market. Things will change, the market will be satisfied and the pendulum will swing back. Ammo and components will be available again until the next time and we will do the dance again. The key is to take advantage of availability and have a plan.
ggibson511960
Member
Government Supply??
The primer shortage makes me wonder how our military is coping with shortages. There was a time when the government armories made all the ammunition and presumably primers. I heard an anecdote about small arms ammunition loading machines in the old Red River Arsenal that could churn out 1 million rounds per hour, but is the government now dependent on private supply? If so I can't see them standing idly by while private buyers dry up their supply. Makes me wish for a supply chain not driven by fear, but market forces. These ammunition and component shortages are happening frequently enough to provide an opportunity for a new manufacturer.
The primer shortage makes me wonder how our military is coping with shortages. There was a time when the government armories made all the ammunition and presumably primers. I heard an anecdote about small arms ammunition loading machines in the old Red River Arsenal that could churn out 1 million rounds per hour, but is the government now dependent on private supply? If so I can't see them standing idly by while private buyers dry up their supply. Makes me wish for a supply chain not driven by fear, but market forces. These ammunition and component shortages are happening frequently enough to provide an opportunity for a new manufacturer.
cmj8591
Member
Part of the reason we run into civilian shortages is because the gov't contracts take priority. The only way they will run short is if there is an interruption in the availability of raw materiel. They also have enough ammo, and pretty much everything else, stored so that they can fight a protracted war on two fronts at the same time. Usually military shortages are more an issue of logistics than availability. Ammo is also no different than just about everything else the military uses. Almost all of it comes from private vendors. It would be cost prohibitive for the gov't to manufacture all the stuff they use. In the event of a big war, they just take control of the private vendors for their own production.
Only a fool goes shopping for components in the middle of a panic drought of supplies. Late January and February 2020, MidSouth Shooters Supply AND MidwayUSA had big time sales on primers and 22 LR. I had plenty of primers and 22 LR. BUT, when you tempt us with copper plated 22 LR for $20 / brick, I and another shooter split a case for ~$220 delivered. When the price fell to $200 for a delivered case, I bought one by myself.
Primer inventory was adequate. All it took was 5K of cast 9 MM and 10K of 38 Spl wadcutters, and small primers are down to 5K on the shelf with a 5 gallon bucket of 38 Spl to reload. I calmed down and decided I'd shoot 4 ACP swc ammo and starter load 44 mag when I have fired 44 mag brass. I know there is 12 gallons of 45 ACP in the shed, so it might be time to start casting --- like late September.
The indoor range has 1,000,000 primers on order (a full pallet or maybe 2), but does not know when they will arrive, Purchase Order was placed 6+ months ago. I was assured that I can get 2 cases (10k of primers) at a reasonable price (maybe cost).
I hope everyone has learned that primer and powder supply is always low the year before the national congressional elections. I'm prognosticating a 22 LR, primer, and powder surplus near October 2021.
Primer inventory was adequate. All it took was 5K of cast 9 MM and 10K of 38 Spl wadcutters, and small primers are down to 5K on the shelf with a 5 gallon bucket of 38 Spl to reload. I calmed down and decided I'd shoot 4 ACP swc ammo and starter load 44 mag when I have fired 44 mag brass. I know there is 12 gallons of 45 ACP in the shed, so it might be time to start casting --- like late September.
The indoor range has 1,000,000 primers on order (a full pallet or maybe 2), but does not know when they will arrive, Purchase Order was placed 6+ months ago. I was assured that I can get 2 cases (10k of primers) at a reasonable price (maybe cost).
I hope everyone has learned that primer and powder supply is always low the year before the national congressional elections. I'm prognosticating a 22 LR, primer, and powder surplus near October 2021.
fredj338
Member
This will be worse than 2012-13 imo. I expect shortages thru the winter & into summer. I have sufficient supplies but firends of mine are out or running very short.
ajgunner
Member
I am set for my own needs but have been breaking in a few new guys on loading their own. I basically told them that any time they are in or going past anywhere that sells primers to take a few minutes and check to see if they have any. Following my own advice I stopped to check availability of shotgun shells on the way to the trap range last night. Low and behold there was 8 boxes of Federal large pistol primers right there on the shelf. The Federal boxes are large similar to shot shell primers so I figure those that saw them must have figured they were for shot shells. I told the guy I would take all 8 and he said we have a limit of 2 per person. I asked if he was really going to make me do 4 round trips to the car and back or was he going to sell me all 8. I only made one trip through the register and out the door with all 8. One of my rookies was happy to hear what I had found for him because he had been looking on line and had been to more than 30 different web sites hunting for them. They are still out there---you just have to look a little closer sometimes.
The second part of the story was the shotgun shells. The shelves were bare except for buck and slugs---neither allowed at the trap range. I asked if they might have some in the back and he says nope. I stepped around the corner and there is 8 case sitting on the floor waiting to be put on the shelves. Duh---guess the guy forgot what he had just brought out of the back. Of course they are no longer $4.95 like they were just 3 months ago. Now the cheap trap loads are $6.50. I knew the club had them for $6.75 and they need the extra, so I just waited till I got to the club to buy the shotgun shells.
The second part of the story was the shotgun shells. The shelves were bare except for buck and slugs---neither allowed at the trap range. I asked if they might have some in the back and he says nope. I stepped around the corner and there is 8 case sitting on the floor waiting to be put on the shelves. Duh---guess the guy forgot what he had just brought out of the back. Of course they are no longer $4.95 like they were just 3 months ago. Now the cheap trap loads are $6.50. I knew the club had them for $6.75 and they need the extra, so I just waited till I got to the club to buy the shotgun shells.
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rkittine
Member
I bought4,000 Remington 1 1/2 Small Pistol Primers last week and another 3,000 this week. The first at $31.00 per thousand plus tax and the last ones at $33.00 plus tax per 1000.
I find that if you go to the little gun shops that cater to the crowd that doesn't reload and that just keep some components around you might find more.
The one local guy has a bunch or Small and Large Rifle if you are on Long Island. I only use Benrch Rest Rifle primers or I would have bought some.
Bob
I find that if you go to the little gun shops that cater to the crowd that doesn't reload and that just keep some components around you might find more.
The one local guy has a bunch or Small and Large Rifle if you are on Long Island. I only use Benrch Rest Rifle primers or I would have bought some.
Bob
If there's a run on roll caps, then I'll become worried
I ran into a guy at my range last week who told me that he's starting to reload primers. Said that he removes the anvils from the spent primers, flattens the brass ends with a punch, and installs the innards from toy gun roll caps (after snipping the paper, I would assume), and then re-installing the anvils.
I'm sitting OK on SPP's for a couple of years-worth of CCI's, Federals and even a couple of bricks of SB's and Winchesters, so I'm hoping that it never comes to using roll cap/recycled primers, but I am sort of impressed by his apparent ingenuity. If there's a run on roll caps at Walmart, then I'll become worried. -S2
ETA: this same guy insisted that his M41 shoots best with Stingers. Therefore, I am somewhat reluctant to endorse his wisdom and knowledge, but I may give the roll cap deal a try during the winter months out of curiosity.
I ran into a guy at my range last week who told me that he's starting to reload primers. Said that he removes the anvils from the spent primers, flattens the brass ends with a punch, and installs the innards from toy gun roll caps (after snipping the paper, I would assume), and then re-installing the anvils.
I'm sitting OK on SPP's for a couple of years-worth of CCI's, Federals and even a couple of bricks of SB's and Winchesters, so I'm hoping that it never comes to using roll cap/recycled primers, but I am sort of impressed by his apparent ingenuity. If there's a run on roll caps at Walmart, then I'll become worried. -S2
ETA: this same guy insisted that his M41 shoots best with Stingers. Therefore, I am somewhat reluctant to endorse his wisdom and knowledge, but I may give the roll cap deal a try during the winter months out of curiosity.
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typetwelve
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I really don't agree with that. The system is perfectly set up to supply us with consumables as we need them. I'd provide examples, but there's really no need. What the system cannot handle is panic driven runs on the system. No supply chain is set up to handle every American with $$ to running out and buying up everything they see. The recent toilet paper stupidity is a prime example.
Want to know who to blame for this? Look in a mirror cuz it's us. Just like every panic driven run on firearms and ammo I've lived through, it's us citizens causing the problems.
The big problem is, that it all starts with the primer.............
Powder and bullets do you no good if you don't have a primer.
I enjoy shooting my pistols and revolvers but I also did a lot of ATA and just old trap shooting before I got hooked on small arms.
I have fourteen "Flats" of trap loads ready to go.......
Just need the 95 degree weather to cool down a little, so I can enjoy myself out at the club.
Otherwise the rifles might get some long lost love, since I did not get a deer tag this year.
Its all good...............
no worries, for now.
Powder and bullets do you no good if you don't have a primer.
I enjoy shooting my pistols and revolvers but I also did a lot of ATA and just old trap shooting before I got hooked on small arms.
I have fourteen "Flats" of trap loads ready to go.......
Just need the 95 degree weather to cool down a little, so I can enjoy myself out at the club.
Otherwise the rifles might get some long lost love, since I did not get a deer tag this year.
Its all good...............
no worries, for now.
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2005
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- 11,462
There's a huge topic on other forum about primers reloading. It's doable and it seems both corrosive and non corrosive are possible. I'm not that desperate yet, but have coffee can of spent ones
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Sounds like a project for a YouTube expert.
It's most definitely not, but the thread I've mentioned has vast amount of knowledge by people far from YouTube experts
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fredj338
Member
Stopped at wally in Chehalis wa sat & they had lots of 12 & 20 birdshot.
cmj8591
Member
If the system was set up perfectly as you say, there would be little or no shortage of anything as upticks in demand would be anticipated and planned for. Most distribution systems strive for that but must balance it against their profit margin. The ammo production system is running 24/7 right now to try and keep up with demand and to produce as much ammo as they can sell. I would bet that they are about at full capacity. At full capacity, in order to increase production they must increase capacity which requires investment. From that perspective, the ammo companies know that at some point the demand will wane. When that happens, if the investment in increased capacity has not been realized, the company looses. Good companies don't loose. Another point is that if the increased production results in a glut, the price goes down and profit goes down. Believe me, the ammo producers know exactly how much ammo it will take to satisfy the increase in demand. They probably have a very good idea about how long it will last also. They know when they need to increase capacity so that their profits are not adversely affected. If it gets to a point where the market will sustain increased production over a period of time, then the investment will be made and production increased. If not, which I think is the case here, the companies will continue to manufacture with what capacity they have until the demand is met. I also don't think that panic buying is completely to blame, at least in the context that is being discussed here. I think the panic buying is not people trying to stock up as much as it is new shooters buying a gun and ammo for the first time. At least where I am, the number of buyers showing up at gun shops to buy their first gun has gone up about 500%. Of course they buy that new M&P and they buy 2 or 300 9mm rounds to go with it. They shoot a box or two and the rest goes in the sock draw with the gun. Eventually that demand will be satisfied. Most of the shooters I know who regularly use ammo have done like I have and created an inventory over time that they maintain at the rate that they use it. I don't consider that panic buying and the concept works works with every consumable, not just ammo.
Sorry but NOBODY could have predicted COVID or what it would do to demand - much less the George Floyd protests and civil unrest that are still driving panic buying and high demand. And I'm including millions of first time buyers in the term "panic" buying.
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