Small victories add up

[BabaBlueJay]

My wife is about as anti-gun as someone can be (Grew up in China where they do not allow private firearm ownership) and I work in public education so I am surrounded by people who are not fans of firearms. That being said, I have found ways to win people over to supporting gun ownership even if they may never fire a gun themselves. While I probably have been alive less years than some on here have been shooting, I think I've got some effective ways to at least make anti-gun people neutral or even positive towards others owning guns.

1. Start small, you won't win over someone entrenched in their anti-gun position immediately. Just getting them to see our side of things is a small win, I try to do this by acknowledging their side even if I vehemently disagree with them. I'll say something like "I understand why someone would be scared of guns, but..." Then lay out a solid argument for gun ownership.

2. Don't let them attach shooters to the 2A community, but do it in a way that is positive. My wife told me about the Virginia Walmart shooting today and I told her that gun owners hate shooters even more than non-gun owners. I told her those kind of people are why we carry, to stop them and protect our loved ones. When I left with my daughter to go to the mall, she asked me to bring my gun. Something she never would have asked when we first got married. I'd say that is progress!

3. Invite them to go shooting. While none have taken me up on this yet, I think if people went to shoot and saw how seriously safety is taken they would change their perspective on legal gun owners and guns in general.

4. Don't debate on their terms. A teacher friend once complained about "assault rifles" like the AR-15, to which I responded that the AR-15 is not a automatic rifle, so it is not what they think it is. Without using their buzzword I steered it into a new conversation where I have the advantage.

5. Educate. Most anti-gun people don't know what semi automatic means, so explain it to them. I've won people over on AR-15 when I showed them the size of conventional hunting rifle rounds compared to 5.56 NATO. Or even explaining that AR stands for Armalite Rifle, not assault rifle, it's amazing how far a little education can go.

Again, none of these are full proof, but I think we need to focus on small victories and win over neutral and even anti-gun people to win in the long run. It's easy to rally pro-gun people, and it is important for us to organize against anti-gun people and laws, but we need to grow our numbers with people who aren't traditional concealed carry people too.

 

[somorris]

I agree, Goudy. We always had guns at our house when I was a kid, my dad taught me to hunt and shoot, etc. Not everyone has had the privilege of growing up that way. All some folks may know is that guns can kill people and are scary. I never really thought much about educating people about guns until the last few years (since about Bill Clinton's time in the White House) when the news media started making such a push for "common sense" gun laws.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

I agree, Goudy. We always had guns at our house when I was a kid, my dad taught me to hunt and shoot, etc. Not everyone has had the privilege of growing up that way. All some folks may know is that guns can kill people and are scary. I never really thought much about educating people about guns until the last few years (since about Bill Clinton's time in the White House) when the news media started making such a push for "common sense" gun laws.

Dang now I have new material to add yes the "common sense" gun law line is one I have to refute a lot. I try to explain how when you really think about it they don't make sense at all, as law abiding Americans are not shooting up places or robbing people. Plus criminals have no issue with illegally obtained guns or magazine capacity. Babylon Bee did a funny video on the subject. I'd post it but it gets too far into politics which I'm told isn't allowed on here.

 

[Miracle Man]

Yes sir

There's so very much misinformation, bad information, and downright lies out there it's crazy. The media has the average non gun person thinking the AR-15 is equal to the GAU-8 30 mm cannon.

 

[tops]

I'm not sure who started calling an AR an assault rifle but I've heard many owners using that term.
There are many gun owners that refer to their guns as weapons. I've never shot anybody but one time I used a stick in a fight. In my 81 years a stick has been more of a weapon than a gun. People don't call knives, hammers, rocks and ball bats weapons so why is a gun referred to as a weapon? The military uses the term weapon but most of us are not in the military and shooting guns is a hobby just like any other sport. Larry

 

[Nomadmax]

When I encounter someone who is anti-firearm (that I can't ignore), I ask them if they're anti-

Fire extinguisher
Seat belts
Motorcycle/bicycle helmet
Knives/surgeon's scalpel?

All of the above listed things are life savers (just like firearms) and have all saved my life at one time or another, including firearms. Once you've cheated death because of piece of safety equipment, it's easy to become a fan. Statistics be damned, it isn't the odds, it's the cost.

 

[SMSgt]

When we have a president telling people a 9mm will blow the lungs out, what can you expect? Anybody who knows anything knows it takes a .45 to do that.

 

[moosedog]

When I run into Anti gunners who say they should ban them, I ask them if then if they ever heard of Prohibition and how did that work out? How about the war on drugs? How's that going?
By then they are usually trying to walk away or change the subject.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

I have met a lot of closet gun owners, people who for social or business reasons keep it quiet less they be anathematized, expelled for deviating from the Party Line.

 

[Buzzzer]

When I encounter someone who is anti-firearm (that I can't ignore), I ask them if they're anti-

Fire extinguisher
Seat belts
Motorcycle/bicycle helmet
Knives/surgeon's scalpel?

All of the above listed things are life savers (just like firearms) and have all saved my life at one time or another, including firearms. Once you've cheated death because of piece of safety equipment, it's easy to become a fan. Statistics be damned, it isn't the odds, it's the cost.

This is all too true. You could also point out that the above items, and pretty much anything else including a persons hands, have the ability to also kill, as I'm sure that they have been used as such at one point or another...

 

[BabaBlueJay]

I'm not sure who started calling an AR an assault rifle but I've heard many owners using that term.
There are many gun owners that refer to their guns as weapons. I've never shot anybody but one time I used a stick in a fight. In my 81 years a stick has been more of a weapon than a gun. People don't call knives, hammers, rocks and ball bats weapons so why is a gun referred to as a weapon? The military uses the term weapon but most of us are not in the military and shooting guns is a hobby just like any other sport. Larry

Excellent points I try to refer to them as tools instead of weapons as well. We can't let them control the terms and need to push back in a way where we can even the playing field.

 

[Camster]

And start off a non gunnie with something like CB shorts.
Even I have no interest in anything more potent than .22lr currently(it was .38 special years ago)
Handing over your .357 or 44 mag, doesn't win instant fans.
Good hearing protection for any caliber.

 

[Krogen]

When I run into Anti gunners who say they should ban them, I ask them if then if they ever heard of Prohibition and how did that work out? How about the war on drugs? How's that going?
By then they are usually trying to walk away or change the subject.

Tried this on a friend who is interested in shooting but politically leans opposite from me. 1) thinks ARs should be banned, 2) wants to go shooting with me, 3) wants me to bring semi-handguns 4) Loves high horsepower sports cars 5) wants to ban alcohol 6) thinks pot is acceptable. 7) wants to buy a semi-auto pistol but wife says "no guns in THIS house!"

You can imagine how our discussion went as we moved through the above items. We kicked around needs, wants and freedoms. IMNHO, he has a real case of cognitive dissonance.

 

[BB57]

My wife has a lot of liberal friends, as in virtually all of them. I'm a moderate/pragmatist with friends of both persuasions, and many in the middle.

In my experience, what changes minds is the realization that someone like me who conceal carries every day is a "normal" family centered individual with an advanced degree.

It causes them a bit of a cognitive reset when they realize ai don't fit the media induced stereotype of an ultra right wing, 2A spouting and demonstrating gun nut who takes offense to any opinion different than his own and is willing to use his God given right to defend his opinion against who ever disagrees.

That stereotype doesn't win us any votes on gun issues, and yet the few of us who do fit that stereotype to one degree or another do however promote it as they also tend to be the folks with the loudest megaphone and usually insist on using it, often to rail against what they see as compromises supported by the majority of gun owners.

From that well educated, thoughtful, "normal looking and sounding" position, I can do a pretty good job explaining why;
- any of a number of my military style semi auto rifles don't pose a threat;
- they are not used in any significant number or percentage of crimes;
- they not used in 84% of mass shootings;
- we don't have a new or recent "proliferation" of guns; and
- gun bans and increased restrictions will not have any effect on gun crime.

But…I don't waste my time arguing against well thought out improvements in our current gun control legislation. Instead I'll talk about what doesn't work, what won't work, and how we could make constructive changes and improvements to what does work.

For example, in NC we effectively have universal background checks for all handgun transfers and have had the, for years. When I inherited a Beretta Compact Type M from my sister in law, I advised her of the law and helped her comply by giving her a copy of my concealed carry permit, as NC requires the receiver of a handgun possess either a purchase permit or a concealed carry permit, both of which meet the Brady Requirement in NC.


Universal background checks don't have to be as odious as people make them out to be of the law is properly designed.

For example, most LEOs I know use the local gunshop in town here to run a background check on any customer to whom they are selling a long gun. The FFL logs it in runs, the NICS check and then logs the gun back out, either to the buyer, or in the unlikely event they get a "deny", back to the seller. The LGS charges $5 for the service. It's a very religious and conservative family owned business, and they fully support universal background checks, but don't talk about it out of fear of offending their customers on the far right. The don't want a forearm to end up in the hands of a prohibited individual and they do what they can in excess of the law to ensure that doesn't happen by giving private sellers a safe space to make a private sale, with a NICS check.

That is stepping up to own a potential problem and solve it, rather than adopting a no compromise policy.

Legislation wise, the smart move would be to codify a similar practice into law making it easy and in expensive to ensure that private sales and transfers happen with a background check.

Allowing LGS owners to run a NICS check without having to log in a firearm for the purposes of vetting the buyer in a private sale or transfer allowing the LGS to make $5-$10 for the effort is one way to do that. Allowing law enforcement agencies to run the same check at no cost is another.

Allowing individuals to obtain a firearm purchase permit in the form of a concealed carry type card that is renewable every five years, and subject to revocation for any prohibited offense in the interim can be another way to meet a universal background check requirement. However, it needs to be done in a manner that doesn't result in anything other than a nominal cost to the individual.

Concealed carry permits work for that purpose in NC, it between the application fees, training costs, etc, it ends up being a $250-$300 cost. That's not acceptable.

—-

Imagine what can happen however if the pro gun community gets out in front of the issue. What happens if we support universal back ground checks with the above provisions, including low cost and no cost ways for a buyer and seller to get a no cost or low cost NICS check or purchase permit that eliminates the need for a NICS check for each individual transfer. Image a federal concealed carry permit, valid in any state that allows concealed carry, that also serves as a purchase permit, available at a nominal cost of say $25.

If we as a pro gun community present the kind of "common sense" gun legislation the anti gun side claim to want, while at the same time ensuring it doesn't present any significant barrier to *law abiding* gun owners what are we losing? It make us look reasonable and puts us in the drivers seat about gun legislation. In the long term that prevents us from being exposed to anti-gun legislation that puts up barriers without really addressing the problems.

 

[Rustyt1953]

 

[Bald1]

BB57 a lot of what you say makes sense. However, having lived in the gun grabbing state of NY for 53 yrs I can tell you , if you give an inch they will take a mile. No compromise or agreement is EVER enough. No law bidding individual believes everyone is fit to own a firearm. The problem is that your trying to be logical and rational with illogical and non rational people. They want all or nothing. That is why a compromise can't be made.

 

[moosedog]

Quote " It make us look reasonable and puts us in the drivers seat about gun legislation. In the long term that prevents us from being exposed to anti-gun legislation that puts up barriers without really addressing the problems."

And you are an NRA member?
You must be very young to believe that giving in at all will stop the anti-gun, anti-American crowd. Sorry, I can't use the words I want to, without getting dinged.
Study how the UK was, and still is losing their rights. Then come back and we'll talk again.

 

[ladder13]

No such thing as common sense with anti's and apologist "gun owners". It is indefinable, and that's how they want it.
They will just keep moving the goalposts.

 

[AlHunt]

... gun owners hate shooters even more than non-gun owners.

Very good point. A real double whammy. Not only is it a human tragedy, it gives ammo to the anti-gun crowd!

 

[m&p2.0fdethumbsafety]

focus on teaching kids. if someone is still braindead about guns as an adult, nothing much you can do for them.