Smith 5906 "Cocked and Locked"

[Tony Rumore]

I've got a Smith 5906 that can be cocked and locked. When the safety is swung down, it locks the trigger from being pulled, rotates the firing pin blocker in place, and does not decock the pistol. Unlike a 1911, you can actually engage the safety with the hammer down, then manually cock the hammer back, where it will remain in it's locked position (even if you pull the trigger) until the safety is returned to fire.

I could care less if you think this is a desirable feature, or just the opposite, so lets not derail the thread with that BS.

I found a thread here from 2014 where a member said he had talked to the factory and cock and lock was an available option at one time. If that is true, does anyone know if there is anyway to determine if that feature was factory installed or ginned up by a Gunsmith after the fact?

Tony Rumore
Tromix

Edited to add - Oddly the ejector is a bit longer than those on my other 5906 pistols.

 

[JohnHL]

Tony, it is a easy to achieve "cocked and locked" on a 5906 (or any other S&W TDA 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gen pistol) by the simple expedient of shortening the "foot" on the sear release lever.

I have no opinion either way on the advisability of the modification, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a time when S&W would do this for a customer, but the only way to know if it was indeed done at the factory would be to call them (they probably wouldn't know) or by requesting a Historical Letter.

Even that might not help.

BTW, on an earlier thread you reported modifying a 3913 to 357 Sig, but you never explained how you did it.

Care to elaborate now?

John

 

[Tony Rumore]

John,

If you simply shorten the foot on the sear release lever, does that prevent the trigger from being pulled when the safety is engaged?

As for the 3913 conversion, if you examine a 3913 magazine, you will note that it is made with an overlapping lap joint. Simply split the mag lengthwise and remove the overlapping section. That will then make the magazine wide enough to accept 357 Sig cartridges. Then open up the breech face to handle the larger case head and run a 357 Sig chamber reamer in the barrel. I'll post a video of shooting it in the next few weeks and put a link over here so you guys can see it.

Tony Rumore
Tromix

 

[snw19_357]

...does that prevent the trigger from being pulled when the safety is engaged?

In single action (and the trigger is not disengaged in double action).
Sear is still engaged with the hammer and firing pin safety lever is blocked by the safety body.

Like the caliber marking on the slide!

 

[surfgun]

I have machined a groove into a safety that prevented the decocking of traditional Smith Auto. The levers left intact. Currently in the spare part bin.

 

[JohnHL]

John,

If you simply shorten the foot on the sear release lever, does that prevent the trigger from being pulled when the safety is engaged?

No, it would not.

When the safety is engaged, the disconnector "foot" pushes the drawbar down, away from the hump on the back of the sear and the hammers DA hooks.

But the trigger is not "locked". It is free to move (just like it would be in normal operation), but the drawbar no longer interacts with anything, other than the foot of the disconnector.

If, as you say, the trigger is "locked" when the safety is engaged, I don't know how (or why) that may have been accomplished.

As for the 3913 conversion, if you examine a 3913 magazine, you will note that it is made with an overlapping lap joint. Simply split the mag lengthwise and remove the overlapping section. That will then make the magazine wide enough to accept 357 Sig cartridges.

I can certainly see why that would be necessary.

Makes me wonder if the 4040PD magazine would bypass that problem.

Then open up the breech face to handle the larger case head and run a 357 Sig chamber reamer in the barrel.

Ream the chamber, yes. Widen the breech face, of course.

But what about the extractor?

Is the 9mm extractor unmodified?

I'll post a video of shooting it in the next few weeks and put a link over here so you guys can see it.

Tony Rumore
Tromix

Thanks, Tony!

I'm looking forward to the video and learning more about the 3913 and 5906.

John

 

[4T5GUY]

Makes me wonder if the 4040PD magazine would bypass that problem.

Oh that’s just great. Another use for the 4040PD magazines.

I’m glad I have “enough” for my 4040 plus two more.

Jim

 

[JohnHL]

Sorry, Jim.

I thought their was a surfeit of them.

John

 

[Ethang]

I did that on a 4506 back in the early 90's to shoot IPSC before I bought a 1911. 10 minutes of work and easy to revert with another unmodified lever.

 

[Tony Rumore]

I did the same thing to a 1006 for IPSC, but it was just Cocked and Blocked. Not Locked. The hammer would still fall with the safety engaged....like a Model 52.

On this gun, with the safety off and the trigger retracted rearward where it is ready to fire, when the safety is engaged, it forces the trigger forward about 1/8" and prevents it from moving rearward enough to fire.

 

[Jimmy!]

...it is a easy to achieve "cocked and locked" on a 5906 ... by the simple expedient of shortening the "foot" on the sear release lever.

John,

Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but you wouldn't happen to have or know of a picture/guide/etc. for about how much that should be shortened, would you? I picked up a (maybe factory/distributor done?) custom 5906 from Germany which had been converted to SAO but which retains the decocker. A decocker/SAO system is clearly undesirable, so I've been looking for a way to turn it into solely a manual safety a la a 745 without doing something dumb and making an unsafe pistol.

I attached a not very good picture of the gun below just for fun next to my buddy's Beretta for scale. It is truly enormous and it is a wonderful shooter.

 

[JohnHL]

John,

Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but you wouldn't happen to have or know of a picture/guide/etc. for about how much that should be shortened, would you? I picked up a (maybe factory/distributor done?) custom 5906 from Germany which had been converted to SAO but which retains the decocker. A decocker/SAO system is clearly undesirable, so I've been looking for a way to turn it into solely a manual safety a la a 745 without doing something dumb and making an unsafe pistol.

I attached a not very good picture of the gun below just for fun next to my buddy's Beretta for scale. It is truly enormous and it is a wonderful shooter.

Off with her head! (I mean foot.)

Seriously, grind the lower, horizontal foot of the sear release lever all the way back to its intersection with the vertical leg (in other words, as if it were never there).

Conversely, you can replace your sear release lever with the equivalent part from the 5906 Double Action Only model known as the 5943.

That part is called by S&W the "Firing Pin Retainer Spacer", which is simply a sear release lever without a foot and with a hole drilled in the upper part of the lever for identification when installed.

I don't know if they are still available from S&W or any other suppliers. (They weren't expensive.)

As the sear release lever is a "fitted part" to your pistol, you might want to source a sear release lever (new or used, they are very inexpensive and S&W made a gazillion of them) and modify that part, saving your original lever should you ever choose to sell your pistol and/or return it to original condition.

John

 

[JohnHL]

Google Image Result for http://www.mdsgunrepair.com/uploads/1/2/3/9/123949379/s508288704525314426_p1819_i1_w480.jpeg

Here's a picture of the "Firing Pin Retainer Spacer".

John