Smith 952

[Decker]

As a follow up to my last post, here's a very common and typical range report on the CZ Tactical Sport that makes the 952 and P210 look a lot less impressive in the big scheme of things.
What is a CZ Tactical sport? My Observations.

 

[Sevens]

I can understand prices of $2K or so, but I was seeing prices over the $5K range for the long slide version of the 952. I haven't even seen a standard version for sale.

Perception and reality -- here are a few things I have noticed.

The traditional 5" barrel 952's (blued ones, stainless ones...) they just don't appear all too often at gun stores or even at gun shows. But they definitely appear somewhat often on Gunbroker.

Gunbroker is simply a little different than the "real world." It is a huge market where it doesn't cost a seller hardly any money to offer it up for sale at a crazy price. And with a -LOT- of registered users, the potential customer base is extremely large.

So it is a very good place to search and look for guns that are otherwise rare out in the real world. And when we're talking about rare handguns that aren't in huge supply... then it doesn't take a LOT of sales to quickly change the "market" for rare guns.

A year ago... you weren't seeing many six inch long slide 952-2 pistols on Gunbroker. And then in the first week of March 2015... the market for long slide 952's was perhaps ALTERED for all time.

On a Sunday evening, March 8th to be exact... two guys decided that they both just -HAD- to own a long slide 952-2 that was listed. So they got in to a bidding war over it. And when the dust settled on that pistol, the final price was $6,525.

On the very next day... the first long slide appeared on Gunbroker with a "buy it now" over $6,000. It seems obvious to me that guys who had no intention of selling the long slides realized (immediately) that it was CRAZY to not sell them if some nutbars were going to spend six G's to get one.

In fact, there are FOUR of them live right now. One of those four listed now? Same gun, same seller as the FIRST ONE to appear on that Monday. He wants over $6,000 for it and he has literally relisted the same thing since March 9th.

Occasionally one of them does sell, typically in the $4000-$4500 range. Usually... they just get relisted endlessly.

So when you have a rare gun that doesn't actually get sold very often... the "market" is as much perception as reality. It is absolutely true that one sold for $6,525. Whether or not that makes a long slide 952 a $6,500 gun is to be debated.

If you are asking me -- it is -NOT- a $6,500 gun right now because you can get any of four of them, right now, for that money but nobody is paying it. One of the four active right now can be yours for $4,500 and it has not sold either.

So, what is a 952-2 long slide worth?
Evidence suggests it is worth something less than $4,500.

 

[625smith]

With all this talk of high $$$ for longslide 952s what value would you put one this one?? I have never seen another one of these in person.

 

[Sevens]

I have never seen -any- long slide 952 in person. On the gorgeous one you're showing, I say the value is somewhere under $4,500 as you can take one exactly like it on GB right now for $4,500 and nobody has claimed it.

 

[wlp624]

At the risk of turning up a little too often, I see this one in person on a regular basis As for its value, I would put it at between $3500 and $4500.

 

[clang444]

Do the CZ's have Briley Bushings?

 

[amazingflapjack]

just looked at some on GB-the highest was-drum roll-$$$6350.00!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[gmborkovic]

Absolutely one of the most interesting posts I have read. Thank you for the education. I just marked this one off my list.

 

[wlp624]

Do the CZ's have Briley Bushings?

No, they do not.

 

[Rick H.]

I assume many of you on this forum don't follow prices on the 3 big gun selling websites. The craziness of 952 prices is just that...craziness. Anyone that would spend twice or close to three times the retail price of a gun, that recently went out of production, is a fool. Oh he may get his money back out of it someday, if he doesn't shoot it, but as far as making a profit of any sort, well that won't happen for a generation or two. The 952 was a very nice handgun but definitely not the "best" target handgun out there. I had a chance recently to shoot a 952 and in my mind I thought it should come close to my Sig P210 Target or at least run with my S&W M-52's. Sadly it did not. Oh it was close, but when the smoke cleared and the dust settled I wasn't overly impressed. Perhaps a 6" 952 would have done better, but the 5" I shot did nothing to support spending twice its retail price for one. Oh don't get me wrong, it's a fine handgun and I wouldn't mind having one, but it is a far cry from being some mysterious super accurate handgun. I have honestly shot better groups with my 1970's vintage Colt Gold Cup which is valued much less than a 952.

I will still standby the Sig P210 Target as the better 9mm target handgun when compared to a S&W 952. If the 952 was as great a handgun as some on the gun sales websites would like you to believe, it would still be in production. Shooters looking for that extra edge would gladly have paid the extra money for a 952 if it was really that good. It wasn't and it's gone. The sad truth is the carpet baggers are trying to make a mint off some mysterious belief the 952 is the best and most accurate handgun of all time and that is far from the truth. And just wait until you need some replacement part for a 952. If they only made a thousand of them just how many replacement parts did they make.

Truth is there are far better target pistols out there than a 952. Older Colt's, Sig, Pardini, Clark, Kimber and a host of other manufacturers have target handguns equal to or better than a 952 and for a lot less money. AND you can get spare parts for them. It's one thing to be shooting a current production handgun in competition and have parts availability, but it is something entirely different to be shooting an out of production handgun with limited to no parts availability. So in this case the old saying "a fool and his money are soon parted" is absolutely true. If you doubt my words just look at the GB auction where a guy has a buy-it-now price of $1,500 for an alleged unfired S&W M-39-2. Before you dump a ton of money on a out of production 952 give yourself a real treat and shoot an X-Series Sig in 9mm or a Pardini. They are very nice shooters and if you break something you can easily get replacement parts for them. Just my 2 cents worth....

Rick H

 

[Decker]

Do the CZ's have Briley Bushings?

The Briley's are based on the 1911 design, an inherently inaccurate design UNLESS it's highly tweaked and tightened up. The 1911 was originally designed as a reliable combat handgun, not a target pistol, so reliability took first precedent over accuracy.
A match barrel and matching bushing is REQUIRED for any 1911 to be anywhere near "accurate", and those two things alone aren't going to get you there.

The CZ Tactical Sport is a completely different design than the 1911, so why would you expect that a completely unique design made by a different company be built with something as unnecessary as a "Briley Bushing"?

 

[Sevens]

Rick H, I can't exactly disagree with ANYTHING you had to say but I think you are attaching way, WAY too much emotion to what we are seeing in the 952 market.

You make it sound like the gentlemen who are offering their long slide 952's at those exorbitant prices are some kind of carnival barkers attempting to sell a magic potion or snake oil.

I don't think that is the reality at all. Rather, I think the scenario I laid out is far more likely. That is -- two nutty guys with extra caffeine in their blood and fat wallets got in to a bidding war and sent ONE GUN'S price in to the stratosphere. And every 952 long slide that has appeared since has a price that reflects that nuclear event.

I also fully believe that half (or more?) of the 952 Long Slides we have seen since March are only there because a pistol that some enthusiast owned and enjoyed now, seemingly, could bring half a YEARS house payments.

Hey, I absolutely love many of my favorite handguns. The passion runs deep. But if one example sells for SIX GRAND on Gunbroker tomorrow... going to be awfully difficult for a working still like me to keep from listing.

My point...
The guys offering these from $4k to $6k aren't bad people and not a one of them has climbed on a stage with a microphone to claim that his 952 is the most accurate handgun ever made by God or man.

What they are doing is making theirs available if the next two fat wallet IDIOTS decide that tonight is the right night to spend six grand on a handgun.

It'll be a sick and sad day in America when some collectors condemn a free market because some choose to price a neat gun for more than a hopeful buyer thinks it "should" be priced.

 

[clang444]

The Briley's are based on the 1911 design, an inherently inaccurate design UNLESS it's highly tweaked and tightened up. The 1911 was originally designed as a reliable combat handgun, not a target pistol, so reliability took first precedent over accuracy.
A match barrel and matching bushing is REQUIRED for any 1911 to be anywhere near "accurate", and those two things alone aren't going to get you there.

The CZ Tactical Sport is a completely different design than the 1911, so why would you expect that a completely unique design made by a different company be built with something as unnecessary as a "Briley Bushing"?

Because many 3rd gen performance center guns have the briley bushing system and they are not 1911s. I was under the impression that the briley system was there to improve accuracy and wanted to know if CZ used similar technology.

I've got a CZ (early 85), and it is a nice gun, but the trigger is not as nice as my standard and TSW 3rd gens.


]

 

[Decker]

I've got a CZ (early 85), and it is a nice gun, but the trigger is not as nice as my standard and TSW 3rd gens.


]

OK, but we're talking about real live target pistols here, not the standard combat line.
Go shoot a CZ Tactical Sport alongside your early CZ as well as your 3rd Gens and then come back and let us know what you found.

I've got two 3rd Gens (5906 I bought brand new waaay back, and a 6906 bought used but like new). The triggers of either one don't hold a candle to the CZ/TS.

 

[rbert0005]

This one will do it, but it's not free either.

19 rounds to boot.

Bob

 

[clang444]

OK, but we're talking about real live target pistols here, not the standard combat line.
Go shoot a CZ Tactical Sport alongside your early CZ as well as your 3rd Gens and then come back and let us know what you found.

I've got two 3rd Gens (5906 I bought brand new waaay back, and a 6906 bought used but like new). The triggers of either one don't hold a candle to the CZ/TS.

Too bad that CZ TS Doesn't have a Briley bushing system like a real target pistol...

 

[Rowlf]

As a Bullseye shooter I'm thinking if a 952 can shoot so well and the frame looks like a M52's frame, there has to be some pictures of Ransom Rest groups at 50 yards to demonstrate the performance potential of the 952. I'm sure if it shot small groups the owners would like to show up the 1911 crowd (and the Beretta M9/92 EIC folks).

At the moment my M52-2 doesn't shoot as well as my 1911, but I believe that is due to the trigger length being too short on the M52 with its SA trigger for my hand size, causing horizontal spread of the group. To correct this it is common to install a trigger shoe on the M52. Do 952 owners install trigger shoes to correct the trigger length for their hands?

Briley bushings are not seen very often in Bullseye competition. Why is that?

 

[ragman]

Here are my 2 long slides. A 952 heavy slide and a Sig 210-6-9 long slid. As to value, I think the 952 heavy should be about $4000.00. The Sig could bring almost 2 times that.
I do not know how many 952 long slides were made but not too many and heavy slides and two tones are the rarest of them. As to the Sig, I have knowledge of only 3 sold in the last 10 years and the last sale was $6800.00.
I feel very lucky to have two of the finest guns you can get.

 

[9146gt]

Some CZ's and Tanfoglio's offer Briley bushings (accubushings)? They are the same as the Briley bushing on the 952 except the threaded portion in the frame is longer.

Tom

 

[Decker]

Too bad that CZ TS Doesn't have a Briley bushing system like a real target pistol...

Too bad that the 952, P210, or any other "real" target pistols don't have the Briley bushing either.

I wonder how in the world how those pistols garnered such a reputation for accuracy without one?