My definition is working 3 or 4 or 10 jobs in "retirement" when you should have done that before you retired.
Smith and Wesson quality Kaput.
- Thread starter hassiman
- Start date
My definition is working 3 or 4 or 10 jobs in "retirement" when you should have done that before you retired.
RubenZ
Member
LOL exactly.
Lets face it all firearms are "junk" and of poor quality.
They are all "monkeys" locked up in a factory
Brands I have returned:
S&W fixed
Sig Fixed
Glock (yes a Glock) Fixed
Ruger fixed
Only gun never returned was a new Colt as I never have purchased one!
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efqQT9pvVEM[/ame]
They are all "monkeys" locked up in a factory
Brands I have returned:
S&W fixed
Sig Fixed
Glock (yes a Glock) Fixed
Ruger fixed
Only gun never returned was a new Colt as I never have purchased one!
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efqQT9pvVEM[/ame]
Richochet
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
My solution for dealing with modern Smith quality
Last year I bought a pre war Hand Ejector Second Model, shipped in 1933 at my local gun shop. It came from an old timer's collection which the family wanted to sell. BTW, it had a beautiful set of Roper ribbon grips on it! I worked the action and it was smooth as drawn butter. The finish was deep blue black and mirror polished.
It was love at first sight. I took it home and began to read up on pre war Smiths. I ordered a factory letter, and documentation from SWHF. A whole new world opened up for me!
I began to search out other pre war Smiths. An Outdoorsman and a Registered Magnum soon followed. The more I learned, the less satisfied I was with the new Performance Center Smiths I owned.
No problems with them, but they just feel different and function differently. I understand that hand fitting and machining is probably not possible given the economics of the gun making business. But perhaps a CNC machine or whatever is part of the current process lacks the intuitive feel of a trained gunsmith. I know from my experience with Bill Wilson 1911s and Ed Brown guns that a big part of the manufacturing process is the hand fitting of the gun internals. But there is a price to pay for hand fitting and you end up with $3,000-$5,000 pistols.
Modern Smiths are good guns and if I had never set foot in the local gun shop and bought the HE model two I would be happily satisfied with the modern offerings. But I was not and therefore I sold my modern (purchased during the past five years) Smiths to fund my pre war collecting.
Last year I bought a pre war Hand Ejector Second Model, shipped in 1933 at my local gun shop. It came from an old timer's collection which the family wanted to sell. BTW, it had a beautiful set of Roper ribbon grips on it! I worked the action and it was smooth as drawn butter. The finish was deep blue black and mirror polished.
It was love at first sight. I took it home and began to read up on pre war Smiths. I ordered a factory letter, and documentation from SWHF. A whole new world opened up for me!
I began to search out other pre war Smiths. An Outdoorsman and a Registered Magnum soon followed. The more I learned, the less satisfied I was with the new Performance Center Smiths I owned.
No problems with them, but they just feel different and function differently. I understand that hand fitting and machining is probably not possible given the economics of the gun making business. But perhaps a CNC machine or whatever is part of the current process lacks the intuitive feel of a trained gunsmith. I know from my experience with Bill Wilson 1911s and Ed Brown guns that a big part of the manufacturing process is the hand fitting of the gun internals. But there is a price to pay for hand fitting and you end up with $3,000-$5,000 pistols.
Modern Smiths are good guns and if I had never set foot in the local gun shop and bought the HE model two I would be happily satisfied with the modern offerings. But I was not and therefore I sold my modern (purchased during the past five years) Smiths to fund my pre war collecting.
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We can watch video's, take tours, etc. but at the end of the day it's what comes out of the box that REALLY COUNTS! If that ain't right nothing else matters.
And we really do not know of what came out of this one box out of millions now do we??
Only have two, both first year issues, a 645 and a 6906.
I do have a 2016 M&P15 rifle.
In my previous comment I was alluding to S&W revolvers specifically. Should have made that clear.
Good points all.... Thanks for your responses
When I sent the gun back for repair it was sent with a highly detailed letter describing the problems I was aware of, which, unless blind were quite evident.
When the gun was at the factory I called a number of times and talked with their technical reps whom I was astonished to discover knew little about what the specs and tolerances were and if they could be corrected. Very disheartening.
Make no mistake, they were polite and seemed to want to help but unfortunately you will never be able to discuss your problem with anyone that has or will ever see your weapon. After that experience I realized that if I wanted to get it done properly I would have to find another way
.
The gun was returned by Smith with the barrel still canted, the front sight slot missed off center, the cylinder gap .006 on one side and .009 on the other and the barrel .003 out of true to the frame.
Had I known that I would have demanded a new weapon. I am not however a master machinist.
It has been explained to me that CNC manufacturing is great but and every few thousand parts are milled bits and other tools wear, so those tight tolerances are no longer that tight anymore. So if you get a gun assembled after the CNC equipment has been running for a while... it can be problematic, especially if there are not folks hand measuring and hand fitting the parts into the finished product. That's just the way it is today. Kind of sad. But it seems that all of these things are made that way today. It isn't just Smith.... by a long shot.
Buying ANY new firearm ... Caveat Emptor.
When I sent the gun back for repair it was sent with a highly detailed letter describing the problems I was aware of, which, unless blind were quite evident.
When the gun was at the factory I called a number of times and talked with their technical reps whom I was astonished to discover knew little about what the specs and tolerances were and if they could be corrected. Very disheartening.
Make no mistake, they were polite and seemed to want to help but unfortunately you will never be able to discuss your problem with anyone that has or will ever see your weapon. After that experience I realized that if I wanted to get it done properly I would have to find another way
.
The gun was returned by Smith with the barrel still canted, the front sight slot missed off center, the cylinder gap .006 on one side and .009 on the other and the barrel .003 out of true to the frame.
Had I known that I would have demanded a new weapon. I am not however a master machinist.
It has been explained to me that CNC manufacturing is great but and every few thousand parts are milled bits and other tools wear, so those tight tolerances are no longer that tight anymore. So if you get a gun assembled after the CNC equipment has been running for a while... it can be problematic, especially if there are not folks hand measuring and hand fitting the parts into the finished product. That's just the way it is today. Kind of sad. But it seems that all of these things are made that way today. It isn't just Smith.... by a long shot.
Buying ANY new firearm ... Caveat Emptor.
Arik
Member
I never understood why everything needs to be either .000000001 tolerance or it's trash.
People worry too much about it bitty little gaps instead of shooting the thing. Never checked the tolerance on mine, don't care, they have shot, shoot now and will continue to shoot.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Smith and Wesson:
I sent a Model 642 (aged over a year old) with the finish peeling off.
The estimate was $85.00 for a safety check and 275.00 for a refinish which came to a total of $360.00 which is almost the price of a new Model 642 (on sale)
Seriously considering going "Ruger".
I sent a Model 642 (aged over a year old) with the finish peeling off.
The estimate was $85.00 for a safety check and 275.00 for a refinish which came to a total of $360.00 which is almost the price of a new Model 642 (on sale)
Seriously considering going "Ruger".
That's why I won't buy any Smiths that weren't made during February of 1953, and then only the first 19 days. Anything else is pure junk. 
I'll try to explain. My NIB model 25-15 is on its second trip to S&W. When I got it back from them the first time, the original problem was not corrected and the gun is now spitting fire from the cylinder gap like a dragon - a new problem.
I put a feeler gauge on it and it measured .013. I have read here but have not substantiated with S&W that .012 is within their specs. I find that "spec" completely unacceptable.
After sending it back again last week I purchased a NIB Ruger Redhawk in .45 Colt, same caliber as the Model 25. Based on the S&W experience I took the feeler gauge with me when I bought the Ruger. The gap measured a "tight" .006. No issues of any kind like what I experienced with the S&W, all with the same ammo, and it is extremely accurate.
And don't get me wrong. I love the Model 25, it is absolutely gorgeous and would love to get it all fixed, but if it comes back with that huge cylinder gap as "in spec" I will just use it as a $1000 paper weight.
Frank46
US Veteran
Brand new Ruger M77 in 308 was scratching brass badly, inletting for the receiver had chunks taken out of the wood. Had to send it back, best groups with the factory barrel 1.5 at best. Remington 870 shotgun, had to go back for a new shell latch and receiver was refinished after repairs. Winchester model 70 brand new went back due to having numerous pits in the barrel. Came back still had the pits. Sold the rifle with new owner aware of the pitting. Found out later that winchester had started doing hammer forged barrels and steel was to be reamed and clean before the process was started. Pits were from inclusions in the barrel steel. GMC Sierra 2006 have 25000 miles on it and no problems. Frank
Always.......
Always give S&W first crack at fixing their own gun.
Always give S&W first crack at fixing their own gun.
MichiganScott
Member
You must not drive much in Louisiana. My 2007 Envoy has 160,000+ on it without any problem other than normal wear.
