Smokey rounds.....44s and Bullseye

[Lou_the_welder]

Hello all .

I do hardly post in this section, but I'm second guessing myself.
I'm loading these 44 magnums with what I thought were 5g. Of Bullseye. I'm at about a 1.580" OAL. 240gr rainier plated. Book marks a 1.605" should be fine. So that means I'm putting a little more pressure in there.
Primers used yesterday were CCI 300's.

My problems haven't crept up until I started shooting alot faster. No, I'm no Miculek, but I can definitely stand my ground. And the rounds I'm using are smokey. I end up probably smelling and breathing alot of the powder.
So I need for the rounds to have a cleaner burn.
This morning, just to confirm the powder drops. I put Bullseye in my disc hopper(lee). On a .53 disk. What the book states SHOULD be a 5.0 gr exact drop. And I got a 4.7,4.7, 4.7 drop! On each! So, the last batch wasn't exactly a 5.0g. They were 4.7g drops.
Then I put the next disk size up, a .57cc disk and on the first shot got a 5.0! Consecutive drops were 5.0, 5.2, 5.1, 5.0.

So, should I first try the. 57cc disk getting closer to the 5gr I need to run the bullseye powder
Or.
Is there a "hotter" primer i can use instead of the CCI 300 like the 350?

Keep in mind, i use a Lee progressive and do not want to change my setup. And the machine only "likes" Winchester and CCI primers. Unless I hand prime. Which I usually dont.

So, what say ye,' o' great internet wisdom. Come at me with thine knowledge!

Any help would be appreciated. Thoughts and criticisms are welcome!

Just trying to have a cleaner burn.

 

[Rule3]

Sounds like you have a very light load to me, any powder is gonna burn poor at low charge. Even the 5 gr disc is to low to me for a plated bullet.

Where did you get your load data?

Alliant has a Max load of 6gr for a 240 LEAD bullet.

The discs on the Lee are only a "guesstimate" you need to use a scale and get the EXACT weight of the charge

I myself would not use BE in a 44 Mag but some folks do. It is a fast powder.
Any LPP will work it's not the primer. BE is not the "cleanest" of powders to begin with.


Just my 2 cents

 

[Fishslayer]

The spreadsheets provided by Lee are just guidelines to get you in the ballpark. Powder density will vary batch by batch.

When I couldn't get exactly 5gr of Bullseye I got the adjustable charge bar. It's not great for very small charges (that can be fixed) and doesn't play well with very fine powders but does well enough for my purposes.

 

[Lou_the_welder]

Sounds like you have a very light load to me, any powder is gonna burn poor at low charge. Even the 5 gr disc is to low to me for a plated bullet.

Where did you get your load data?

Alliant has a Max load of 6gr for a 240 LEAD bullet.

The discs on the Lee are only a "guesstimate" you need to use a scale and get the EXACT weight of the charge

I myself would not use BE in a 44 Mag but some folks do. It is a fast powder.

Just my 2 cents

Yes. Its I lite load. I got my data from my Lee's book. Here's the excerpt.

Maybe I should bump it up a bit then? Primer should be fine.
I use the CCI 300's for the 2400 loads and they have no problem firing them.

 

[Lou_the_welder]

The spreadsheets provided by Lee are just guidelines to get you in the ballpark. Powder density will vary batch by batch.



When I couldn't get exactly 5gr of Bullseye I got the adjustable charge bar. It's not great for very small charges (that can be fixed) and doesn't play well with very fine powders but does well enough for my purposes.

I hadn't weighed Bullseye in a while. And that disk had worked well on a 240gr RN 45 acp.
Since they're disks. I usually get the same results every time. And if I change disks between caliber changes. On a proven load, I dont weigh them. They are the same.
I think I got used to that disk size on that gr.bullet.

The next disk size was +/- .2g of what I needed. So, I think I'll bump it up the next disk size.

 

[Nevada Ed]

While a lot of people use Bullseye, A5, w231, tite, for light target loads,

I like a powder that is a little larger and fills the case up a little more, like Red Dot or Green Dot that can work for a nice light target load in most cases.
Yes you will need a little more powder than the skimpy smaller fast burning grained powders but I like to be able to see the powder in the case, when I check my loading block before seating the bullets.

A smoked case will usually mean that there is not enough pressure for the case to expand and seat in the chamber.

I will try to add a little more powder to stop this from happening, since I like clean cases for loading if possible.
Not that smoked cases are bad............. just that being a Navy man, it just is not going to work out, for me.

 

[Rule3]

Do you have a scale?? If not get one. Heck a $25 electronic is better than nothing!


My Lee discs and batch of BE will weigh different than yours or anyone else's.


That data is a for a lead bullet, your plated has more friction, so yes bump it up a bit but you have to weigh it!

 

[Lou_the_welder]

While a lot of people use Bullseye, A5, w231, tite, for light target loads,



I like a powder that is a little larger and fills the case up a little more, like Red Dot or Green Dot that can work for a nice light target load in most cases.

Yes you will need a little more powder than the skimpy smaller fast burning grained powders but I like to be able to see the powder in the case, when I check my loading block before seating the bullets.



A smoked case will usually mean that there is not enough pressure for the case to expand and seat in the chamber.



I will try to add a little more powder to stop this from happening, since I like clean cases for loading if possible.

Not that smoked cases are bad............. just that being a Navy man, it just is not going to work out, for me.

I have used Bullseye, W231 and titegroup on light loads.
I prefer titegroup and 2400 and have used 800X and H110 on heavy loads.

I try and stay between 200-240gr. For cost. I cant shoot lead. Unless outdoors.

Hardly get to shoot outdoors. I'm taking care of family right now. So, a clean indoor range load is what I need right now.

And I have used brown cases to load. But, if I have time, clean them and leave them shiny.

 

[Lou_the_welder]

Do you have a scale?? If not get one. Heck a $25 electronic is better than nothing!


My Lee discs and batch of BE will weigh different than yours or anyone else's.


That data is a for a lead bullet, your plated has more friction, so yes bump it up a bit but you have to weigh it!

Yes I do. I have a frankford arsenal (?) Digital scale and a mechanical scale.
This morning I was using the digital one. Put the plate and hit the tare button, then did the drops right on it.
I've used plated loadings on lead figures. On some , they're good.
But then I was seeing those Elmer Keith loads. And he says for light plinking on bullseye (for lead) he calls for 5g on a magnum or special case.
I've given up special cases on a magnum cylinder. Too many problems and I've noticed a bump in accuracy as well. But, I know that's subjective.

 

[Univibe]

Bullseye is a bit on the smoky side. Also, are you using lubricated lead bullets? They contribute to the smoke factor as well.

 

[lrrifleman]

Lou, I am not loading 44s yet, but your charge sounds rather light to me. I have been using a Speer recommended charge of 5.8gr WW231/5.4gr Bullseye with a 200gr FMJ SWC in 45ACP, and not too happy with 50 yard performance. (I realize comparing apples to oranges!) Usually, when I get smokey rounds with my 38 Special WC loads, it is because I have a light powder charge and insufficient crimp.

Good luck!

 

[Lou_the_welder]

Anyone have a light load favourite?

I currently have hp38,titegroup,W231,power pistol bullseye for light.

 

[rockquarry]

I've used 5 grs. Bullseye with a 250 grain Lyman #429421 in a .44 Special case, not magnum. Burns clean and is accurate, but I think only around 800 fps muzzle velocity. I don't recall whether or not I've tried a CCI-350 primer, but a CCI-300 does fine. If using a magnum case, the magnum primer and/or a slight increase in powder charge weight should do okay.

 

[Lou_the_welder]

I've used 5 grs. Bullseye with a 250 grain Lyman #429421 in a .44 Special case, not magnum. Burns clean and is accurate, but I think only around 800 fps muzzle velocity. I don't recall whether or not I've tried a CCI-350 primer, but a CCI-300 does fine. If using a magnum case, the magnum primer and/or a slight increase in powder charge weight should do okay.

I used the .53 disk(4.7g)on a 240gr with special cases and remember them less smokey.
That makes sense. Less case space, maybe a cleaner burn?
I had to stop using special cases when some PC bullets made a huge mess of the force cone and cylinder.
I'm gonna try and keep the magnum cases and get closer to the actual load. (5.0-5.2g vs. The 4.7g it seemed I was using)

 

[Lou_the_welder]

Another side question:

Do CCI #300 burn less than a WLP Winchester primer?

I know I have a book that states which have . But I dont remember the book.

 

[rockquarry]

I used the .53 disk(4.7g)on a 240gr with special cases and remember them less smokey.
That makes sense. Less case space, maybe a cleaner burn?
I had to stop using special cases when some PC bullets made a huge mess of the force cone and cylinder.
I'm gonna try and keep the magnum cases and get closer to the actual load. (5.0-5.2g vs. The 4.7g it seemed I was using)

You may be on the right track - too much case capacity for the charge. I've had no experience with powder coated bullets. The conventionally lubed bullets work very well. Good luck-

 

[rockquarry]

Another side question:

Do CCI #300 burn less than a WLP Winchester primer?

I know I have a book that states which have . But I dont remember the book.

I don't know, but I've never been adverse to experimenting with other primers. Often there is no difference, but sometimes there is enough difference to make the effort worthwhile.

 

[Rule3]

Once again, it's not the primer, but try different ones if you want.

Heck try HP38/W231 but it also doesn't burn well at mouse fart loads. At least it is a little slower and if you vary due to the discs you are not gonna blow up. You have leeway to play with

Look at the Hodgdon data, notice the difference in the start load between a JHP and a lead 240 gr bullet!!
Set your sights on pistol reloading data | Hodgdon Reloading


Lee data is just data taken from some other source long ago. Lee did not test anything.


EDit:


Also how are you crimping the bullets? From what I recall the bullet you are using has no cannelure. So you need to be sure you have good neck tension.

 

[6string]

I love Bullseye powder. But, "smokiness" is always a characteristic in any load/cartridge for which it is used.
I find it to be part of its charm, but understand others may find it annoying.

If you're shooting rapid fire, especially on an indoor range, you're gonna get "Bullseye" clouds forming.
In light loads, most of the other powders listed (HP38 231, 700x, etc) will also have some degree of "smoke".
For really clean burning and top notch accuracy, I've found Vihtavuori N310 to be excellent. It is a high energy, very fast burning powder with an almost laboratory grade level of cleanliness. If you want a clean burning lead bullet centerfire load that burns like target grade 22 LR, this is the powder.
It is a top choice for international centerfire competition in the 32 S&W long (wadcutter load) and 38 Special. It has also found favor with U.S. military marksmanship teams for 45 ACP and 9mm.

Jim

I just checked the Vihtavuori website.
N300 Powders - Vihtavuori

Reloading data - Vihtavuori

Lots of great data. But, nothing for N310 in 44 mag. But, they do offer loads for N320 and N32C. The latter is marketed under the name Tinstar. I haven't used either, but if they are as clean as N310, should be great.
Personally, I would have no qualms about recommending 44 data with N310, but without being able to back it up with factory data, will refrain from commenting.
Best Wishes!

 

[andy52]

I'm sure many will disagree with me on this but I gave up on Bullseye powder many years ago. It was the go to powder when I first started loading 40 years ago, but I found it to be just to dirty and moved on to cleaner burning ball powders. At that time I moved to Accurate Arms powders and haven't looked back, they're clean meter well and work with almost ever pistol I own. Their #2 is almost as fast as Bullseye but I prefer #5 for its versatility it can be used in 9mm, 38 Spl, light .357, .40S&W .44 Spl and .45 ACP. When I move up to heaver loads I skip over #7 and use #9 for Heavy .357 and .44 Mag.