Smoothbore 1917s?

[TAROMAN]

At the LGS recently there was a discussion as to whether the Army ever experimented with or issued smoothbored 1917 revolvers. I have never heard of such a thing, and SCSW makes no mention of it.

Maybe a pilot's survival/small game hunting revolver like the later .410s that the Air Force issued to their bomber crews?

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
When I was Military the issue survival round was a .45acp shot shell for Model 1911. Later in addition was a small .22/.410 over-under shoulder weapon with a metal stock similar to a sten gun stock. IIRC there also were .38spl shot cartridges for the S&W/Colt revolvers.

 

[handejector]

I'd say BS.
I've never heard mention of it.

 

[TAROMAN]

Thanks,

Confirms my opinion. I was called to mediate the "discussion".
Was glad to do this, however, as I am also the one called whenever an interesting S&W comes in.

 

[sheriffoconee]

I'd say BS.
I've never heard mention of it.

I 'spect that settles it....if the Big Ape ain't heard of it, it didn't happen.....
Doesn't make sense anyway.... .mil having a contract for special barrels during WWI???? Nahhhhh, we would all know about that if it were true

 

[Jack Flash]

I was just wondering...

Of course there was a Model of 1917 revolver (two actually)...

There was a Model of 1917 bayonnet...

There was a Model of 1917 Rifle (actually issued in greater numbers than the Model of 1903!)...

Given that the US Army also issued shotguns with short barrels for use in the close confines of the trenches, is it possible there was a Model of 1917 shotgun?

Could this be what confused the folks at the gun shop?

 

[TAROMAN]

Somebody's been boring them:

For sale on GB:

Smith & Wesson 1917 parts barrel smoothbored : Barrels at GunBroker.com

Would seem to me that would constitute a "sawed off shotgun" if installed?

 

[target tech]

Yep,
I don't know if it would be considered a destructive device or AOW. Either way, it would certainly be an NFA weapon.

.............Go straight to jail do not collect $200.00.........

 

[JSR III]

Could be one that got lunchboxed or could also be one that had some error and tossed in the scrap barrel and then "saved" before rifling was done.

 

[KEN L]

Seems to me I remember reading something recently about smooth bore revolvers used by tunnel rats in Viet Nam. I'm not sure they were 1917's, but they were definitely a large frame Smith and they used some special type of ammo that wouldn't blow their eardrums out when shot in confined areas. As a matter of fact I think the chambers may even have been larger than .45 cal and the barrels were removed because they used some type of special self contained low noise projectile, or something like that. Maybe someone else remembers this and can further elaborate..............

 

[sureshotbob]

Ken I think Paladin did a post about the VN guns and if I remember right they were modified mod. 29's

 

[NE450No2]

Durring the Vietnam war there was a Special S&W that saw some use.

It was called the QSPR, the Quiet Special Purpose Revolver.

If I remember correctly it was a modified S&W Mod 58.

It fired special "silent" buckshot shells throught a smooth bore barrel.

The round was designed so thet when it fired, the buckshot was proppeled out of the case, by the powder pushing a "folded" piece of steel, that stopped at the mouth of the case, thus containing all the smoke/flash, etc. and most of the noise as well.

These QSPR revolvers were designed for use by the Tunnel Rats.

 

[586]

this is from Wikipedia


Quiet Special Purpose Revolver

Some S&W model 29s were rebuilt by the AAI Corporation to make the Quiet Special Purpose Revolvers (QSPR). These had new, short, smoothbore barrels (35 mm / 1.375 inch), with .40" / 10mm bore, and with cylinder chambers reamed to accept special QSPR ammunition which externally resembled metal-cased .410-gauge shotgun shells but internally worked as a piston to trap the gases. This special ammunition was made by AAI.[3]
This pistol was developed from 1967 to 1971 to be used by tunnel rats in the Vietnam War. The QSPR was tested on the battlefield in 1969, an improvement and testing program ran 1970 till 1971. At least officially it never entered service. The US withdrawal from Vietnam reduced interest in the QSPR weapon, and the program was ended about 1972.[3]

 

[Ed45]

I have heard of some of these "self-silenced" rounds appearing in the U.S. but don't belive the actual gun has ever been seen or collected here.

 

[handejector]

Check out the Expert Commentary





Smith & Wesson/AAI 44 Magnum Vietnam Tunnel Gun

 

[Sebago Son]

1917 Barrels.

The rifling in 1917 barrels is very shallow in any event... it would be easy to believe that a worn tube is a smoothbore...

 

[desi2358]

In my collection of old American Rifleman magazines I have read that making shot pistols out of old US 1917 revolvers was a short lived craze in the late 40's early 50's. It would probably take me a while to find the actual articles but they were interesting enough that I haven't forgotten them. The revolvers were bored out smooth and shotshells were made up in shortened 06 brass allowing for a fairly decent shot load. By putting a small bottleneck in the brass they would headspace like a 45 or the chamber could be reamed straight and they could be used with moon clips depending on the users preference. Unfortunately the Feds decided they were in violation and put a stop to such goings on. Handgun length and smoothbore was not allowed, if they had left the rifling or added a shallow slow twist after reaming we might have had a Judge back then.

 

[TAROMAN]

Bingo!

Sounds like you have nailed it!

In my collection of old American Rifleman magazines I have read that making shot pistols out of old US 1917 revolvers was a short lived craze in the late 40's early 50's. It would probably take me a while to find the actual articles but they were interesting enough that I haven't forgotten them. The revolvers were bored out smooth and shotshells were made up in shortened 06 brass allowing for a fairly decent shot load. By putting a small bottleneck in the brass they would headspace like a 45 or the chamber could be reamed straight and they could be used with moon clips depending on the users preference. Unfortunately the Feds decided they were in violation and put a stop to such goings on. Handgun length and smoothbore was not allowed, if they had left the rifling or added a shallow slow twist after reaming we might have had a Judge back then.

 

[sandspur6]

I was just wondering...

Of course there was a Model of 1917 revolver (two actually)...

There was a Model of 1917 bayonnet...

There was a Model of 1917 Rifle (actually issued in greater numbers than the Model of 1903!)...

Given that the US Army also issued shotguns with short barrels for use in the close confines of the trenches, is it possible there was a Model of 1917 shotgun?

Could this be what confused the folks at the gun shop?

YES! The 1897 Winchester pump shotguns were adopted as the Trench Shotgun Model of 1917, complete w/ handguard and bayonet lug.

 

[Muley Gil]

"YES! The 1897 Winchester pump shotguns were adopted as the Trench Shotgun Model of 1917, complete w/ handguard and bayonet lug."

Yes, and the '97s used the same bayonet as the 1917 Enfield, not the 1903 Springfield.

 

[SG-688]

In my collection of old American Rifleman magazines I have read that making shot pistols out of old US 1917 revolvers was a short lived craze in the late 40's early 50's. It would probably take me a while to find the actual articles but they were interesting enough that I haven't forgotten them. The revolvers were bored out smooth and shotshells were made up in shortened 06 brass allowing for a fairly decent shot load. By putting a small bottleneck in the brass they would headspace like a 45 or the chamber could be reamed straight and they could be used with moon clips depending on the users preference. Unfortunately the Feds decided they were in violation and put a stop to such goings on. Handgun length and smoothbore was not allowed, if they had left the rifling or added a shallow slow twist after reaming we might have had a Judge back then.

Confirming your memory, the Kent Bellah update of my 1965 edition of W.H.B. Smith's Book of Pistols and Revolvers - p 719 - shows a smooth bore Colt 1917 with a screw on choke tube made by famous wildcatter Jim Harvey.

Bellah cites Harvey as making them from 1952 until 1956, which is the date he gives for the ATF ruling. (ATFU then??)

 

[lack53]

Maybe this thread just helped me answer my question as to what I am holding here..I have a 1917 barrel marked S&W Da 45..The bore is .500", and slick as a button on the inside..It didnt appear to be reamed out, because the thing has no sign of rifling, and just looked like a smoothbore shotgun on the inside..nice and slick..This and 1917 cylinder(on ebay now) were wrapped in an old oily rag in some stuff I bought in the 80's from an old guy that had owned them and several other neat old gun items for years..there is no finish on it, and there is some speckling from rust here and there...It's funny how long we hold onto stuff before we finally decide to let it go...thanks to all of you for being so knowledgeable..I would have never figured this out on my own..Bobby

 

[Skeetr57]

Over the years I have seen several variations of .45 ACP shotshells. There was an early factory version with a paper bullet that was filled with small shot and a version with a brass case that was longer than normal with a shoulder that had an over shot wad and was crimped to hold the wad in. I think that version was military in origin. During the VN war, I saw another version with a plastic bullet shaped sabot that contained large steel shot, larger than BB size. I made up some brass shot cartridges at one time for a friend by trimming .30-06 cases to cylinder length and loading with powder, wads and shot. After firing once with half moon clips, they could be reloaded and used without the clips because they were fire formed with a shoulder on the case.
I also have seen one 1917 S&W that had had the rifling lands reamed or honed to the point that it was barely visible in an attempt to make it shoot better patterns with shot.

 

[DWalt]

No doubt there were some smoothbore M1917s (and probably lots of other revolvers also) made up. But keep in mind, any such handguns would be considered just like "sawed-off shotguns" and would be NFA weapons. I think the chances of getting caught with one are very slim, but be careful to whom you talk about it.

 

[mikepriwer]

.44 Military Smoothbore shipped to Congressman King

Here are some pictures of an early 1950's .44 Military two-tone shipped to Congressman Cecil King of Los Angeles.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[bluongo]

Recently I acquired a very nice Model of 1950 .45 military,to my horror when I opened the cylinder I found that it had been bored strait through. I kept the revolver because I had gotten it at a very reasonable price. Trying to figure why someone would ruin a good cylinder (luckily the barrel is still rifled) I came to the conclusion they were making a snake gun but I couldn't figure out what type of ammo they would make up or use. Thanks to Skeetr57 I have the answere. I never would have thought of trimmed down 30-06 cases, I think I'll try to make some for myself.

 

[Muley Gil]

I have seen several 1917s that had been shot so much that the barrels were almost completely smooth.

 

[tennexplorer]

6.5 x 55 Swedish cases work well also. They have a slightly larger base diameter. Closer to the base diameter of .45 acp.

 

[Skeetr57]

You are of course correct, but the availability of .30-06 brass is much better(cheaper) than 6.5x55, and in this application, the .006" difference in diameter makes no difference.

 

[Frank46]

[email protected] in one of their forums instructions on how to make up shotshells using I think '06 cases and if memory serves rcbs may still sell the dies to make the rounds.Remington used to make shotshells for the 45acp but stopped some years back. Don't think they had it quite right as when the crimp expanded it expanded right to where the rifling in the barrel was. You could see the rifling marks on the brass. Still have about 50 or so. From memory they did print pretty nice patterns at about 15 feet from the target. Frank