So I just shot a box of wadcutters through my airweight

[Doug M.]

When I train with them I aim for the region below the navel and above the groin. 2-3 pills there will absolutely ruin a dirtbags day.

*
Argh. Please revisit that practice. Any of the references on the proper part(s) of the anatomy of the body to target will refer to an area often described as two vertical lines through the nipples, one horizontal line through the nipples, and another horizontal line roughly at the intersection of the throat and the main part of the body. That is where all the vitals including major blood vessels are.

Head shots, more properly referred to as face shots, should generally be sent to the triangle formed by the outside edges of the eyes, and the bottom edge of the nose. There is a LOT of information based on research that shows that these are the places in which handgun bullets are most likely to be successful.

I am not a fan of the J frame, and consider it to be a BUG only, except for expert use, and the research data on defensive shootings would cause a reasonable person to consider a 5 shot revolver to be inadequate. (I have a 940 that I rarely carry, and a 296 that I carry only for limited purposes; my EDC is a Glock 33 with at least one spare mag, and when I leave town, more often that not I am carrying a G17 and at least one other.) When I carried a .38 J frame, it was almost always as a BUG. The .38 wadcutter is in fact well proven, and my speedloaders had standard pressure SWC for ease of reloading. My last few years in uniform, I carried the G33 as a BUG, with a spare mag. I'm pretty big and almost never wore anything other than a jumpsuit, so I made that work.

 

[Flyingfool]

"... the research data on defensive shootings would cause a reasonable person to consider a 5 shot revolver to be inadequate."

Could you please reference such research?

The statistics I have seen on civilian self defense shootings is the vast majority of shootings take place at about 10 feet and less than 5 rounds shot.

Based on these statistics, a 5 round Jframe would infact be about the perfect match to the vast majority of CIVILIAN self defense scenarios!

I agree for a multiple threat scenerio, a jframe or any revolver for that matter, is capacity limited and a double stack semi-auto is more appropriate or "better" choice. But the statistics do not seem to support that this is the predominant situation. Yes it happens, and every person must make a choice of what weapon is most appropriate for what they decide is a reasonable threat they may face.

If I head to a generally good are of town with low violence, a jframe may be a reasonable choice. If gang violence is on the rise and in a higher population area with generally more crime, then a higher capacity weapon may be a better choice. A gun is a tool. And like any tool, there is the proper tool for the job. Do you need a common carpenters claw hammer to pound a nail in, or do you "need" an eight pound sledge hammer? Sure the sledge hammer may work, but is it really the proper tool? Similarly, if you want to break apart concrete sidewalk slab, you certainly would not want to use a standard carpenters claw hammer.

You tailor the tool for the expected job that is expected.

For civilian self defense. Any gun carried is essentially a BUG. It is a last resort. Unlike military or law enforcement, civilains are not called to go into a hostile environment. If the environment is so dangerous that we feel carrying a gun is essential and required. Then a civilian should SERIOUSLY evaluate why the hell they should put themselves into that situation!

The best gunfight is the one you AVOID in the first place!

 

[Doug M.]

Tom Givens has a lot of data, and IIRC, Gary Roberts has some too - he has written on the issue, but I am not sure if that material is available outside of a limited access forum. One of the major problems is that handgun rounds suck, and that often multiple good hits are needed to stop a determined offender. (A pistol is what one carries when they have no specific reason to expect a problem ...) The Urey Patrick and John Hall book I regularly cite here has a whole chapter (I think chapter 4 of the 3rd edition) on this issue. Compound that with the difficulty in shooting a J frame (and I just saw another demo of that Friday), and it is revealed as a very poor choice. For LE, it is most properly considered a 3rd handgun - Haggard has written on this. and his logic is impeccable.

 

[DonD]

there is reports of police using wad cutters killing many people.

Probably killed more than all these modern self defense ammo.

Show us some of these cases, don't just state it. Most cops in the past who used issue .38 Spl revolvers carried ineffective 158gr round nosed soft lead slugs. Don