So What is Wrong with the Newer Model with the Locking Hammer
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Invictus357
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I invite you to read this, at the very least the last post. Handejector summarizes it all very clearly.
Internal Lock discussion
Internal Lock discussion
gwpercle
Member
I own both and have shot both extensively .
I have had 0 problems with the lock models .
I am an old guy who hates new stuff but the "Locks" never gave me any problems ... I think
Some people just like to complain ...
And some people like to make mountians out of molehils .
My Father advised me to try things out for myself ...
Don't believe what you hear ... and only believe half of what you see ! When Dad gave me that advice computers didn't exist ... today people post all sorts of half truths they read somewhere but don't realy know ...
I have found nothing wrong with new models ...
Try One ... see for yourself !
Gary
Like makeup...........Its easily removed..........Seems we beat this horse to death years ago.
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Here's my .02, with some pictures.
It's ugly, useless, and if you DO use it to keep the kids safe... good luck finding that stupid little key when you actually need the gun.
BUT, they must not fail very often (if at all) because S&W would have removed them long ago if owners were getting killed because their guns failed to protect them.
The IL is a key'ed cam which pushes the flag up and a little bump on the flag locks the hammer in place. When you turn the key/cam back to unlocked, a tiny little spring pushes the flag back down (not the key turning).
The spring is probably the smallest single part in the gun, and if you lose it while stripping and cleaning a new-to-you gun, or it ever breaks, the flag can stay up, locking the gun. The key won't unlock it in that case, so you'll need to fidget with the flag and hammer to unlock the gun. Not good in a self defense situation.
*I found this out personally the first time I stripped a 686. I put it back together without even knowing there was a little spring there, or that it had fallen onto the floor, and the flag would flip up and down if I shook it.
**This was entirely my own Bubba fault; not S&W's. But it showed me how frail the IL is.
"Safeties are mechanical devices subject to mechanical failure from wear and other factors, and they can fail when least expected".
The pics below show this little spring, which is the size of a gnat, mounted on the flag. For size comparison the "large" spring next to it is the trigger's rebound lever torsion spring, which is also tiny and easy to loose (in my experience).
I have read that there were reported cases on early IL Air Lite guns where the flag came up under heavy recoil, but I don't believe that. I find that hard to believe, unless the early springs were smaller gauge than the current one. This little spring won't let the flag come up at all if it's in good shape and installed properly. Even so, I always remove it and plug the hole. Then I never need to think about it again.
It's ugly, useless, and if you DO use it to keep the kids safe... good luck finding that stupid little key when you actually need the gun.
BUT, they must not fail very often (if at all) because S&W would have removed them long ago if owners were getting killed because their guns failed to protect them.
The IL is a key'ed cam which pushes the flag up and a little bump on the flag locks the hammer in place. When you turn the key/cam back to unlocked, a tiny little spring pushes the flag back down (not the key turning).
The spring is probably the smallest single part in the gun, and if you lose it while stripping and cleaning a new-to-you gun, or it ever breaks, the flag can stay up, locking the gun. The key won't unlock it in that case, so you'll need to fidget with the flag and hammer to unlock the gun. Not good in a self defense situation.
*I found this out personally the first time I stripped a 686. I put it back together without even knowing there was a little spring there, or that it had fallen onto the floor, and the flag would flip up and down if I shook it.
**This was entirely my own Bubba fault; not S&W's. But it showed me how frail the IL is.
"Safeties are mechanical devices subject to mechanical failure from wear and other factors, and they can fail when least expected".
The pics below show this little spring, which is the size of a gnat, mounted on the flag. For size comparison the "large" spring next to it is the trigger's rebound lever torsion spring, which is also tiny and easy to loose (in my experience).
I have read that there were reported cases on early IL Air Lite guns where the flag came up under heavy recoil, but I don't believe that. I find that hard to believe, unless the early springs were smaller gauge than the current one. This little spring won't let the flag come up at all if it's in good shape and installed properly. Even so, I always remove it and plug the hole. Then I never need to think about it again.
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IFFEN ya throw it away...........ya will never lose it..............
Old Navy
Member
Never had a problem with failures caused by the lock, I just hate the look it gives the gun. That said I didn't buy it for looks, just to plink with off the back deck.
I shot a few rounds today w/o a front sight in the 610 and still hit the steel at 25 yards. Did I mention I lost it and S&W is kind enough to replace it free.
Absolutely nothing wrong with the lock guns Some people complained when they went from bias ply tires to radials and some are still whining about the demise of the carburetor although cars in the 60s seldom lasted 150,000 miles, or got over 16MPG.
I have quite a few lock guns. I have never had any problems with the locks. I do think they are useless to 99% of the population. I also know that it is extremely easy to remove them and install a plug in the hole. Also, I have worked with metal all my life. Forged parts can and do fail. There is absolutely no reason on earth to believe they are superior in anyway to MIM parts. If MIM technology was faulty a lot more airplanes would fall form the skies.
The steel cylinders in guns with MIM parts and those with alloy frames are made the from the exact same material as they have been for the last 50 0r 60 years. The TI cylinders have been thoroughly tested and nobody has shown up here with one that blew up
I have quite a few lock guns. I have never had any problems with the locks. I do think they are useless to 99% of the population. I also know that it is extremely easy to remove them and install a plug in the hole. Also, I have worked with metal all my life. Forged parts can and do fail. There is absolutely no reason on earth to believe they are superior in anyway to MIM parts. If MIM technology was faulty a lot more airplanes would fall form the skies.
The steel cylinders in guns with MIM parts and those with alloy frames are made the from the exact same material as they have been for the last 50 0r 60 years. The TI cylinders have been thoroughly tested and nobody has shown up here with one that blew up
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My $.2
I think it's a reminder when S&W "Bent the Knee" to the Anti-gun politicians and sold out to appease them. and also, it's a potential failure point that does not need to be there.
I'll be honest, there was a time when I told myself I would never purchase a S&W as long as they still had the lock, but I did it anyhow, and the lock itself is not a concern for me as I purchased a pistol for fun. I don't carry revolvers for defense.
And my understanding is there have been some documented failures with the lock engaging on lightweight, heavy recoiling carry pistols. which is why some models don't have the lock. and why many despise them, again, a unnecessary failure point
People forget when S&W was under British ownership back in the day. But I think they have made their amends, moving to Marysville TN was one big step.
Gun owners tend to have long memories when it comes to decisions that are made for Political reasons vs. practical ones.
And it looks like there moving towards eliminating them. We'll see.
I think it's a reminder when S&W "Bent the Knee" to the Anti-gun politicians and sold out to appease them. and also, it's a potential failure point that does not need to be there.
I'll be honest, there was a time when I told myself I would never purchase a S&W as long as they still had the lock, but I did it anyhow, and the lock itself is not a concern for me as I purchased a pistol for fun. I don't carry revolvers for defense.
And my understanding is there have been some documented failures with the lock engaging on lightweight, heavy recoiling carry pistols. which is why some models don't have the lock. and why many despise them, again, a unnecessary failure point
People forget when S&W was under British ownership back in the day. But I think they have made their amends, moving to Marysville TN was one big step.
Gun owners tend to have long memories when it comes to decisions that are made for Political reasons vs. practical ones.
And it looks like there moving towards eliminating them. We'll see.
The internal lock is lesson in excessive government power right in your face.
They have allowed S&W to continue in business, making and selling firearms.
They have allowed a business man to obtain an FFL and conduct business in firearms.
They have allowed you to purchase a firearm after proving you are not a miscreant.
They have allowed you to keep your firearm in your domicile, provided you comply with their safety rules.
If you ask politely, they will even allow you to carry the damn thing on your person, wherever and whenever they allow.
No. Thanks.
They have allowed S&W to continue in business, making and selling firearms.
They have allowed a business man to obtain an FFL and conduct business in firearms.
They have allowed you to purchase a firearm after proving you are not a miscreant.
They have allowed you to keep your firearm in your domicile, provided you comply with their safety rules.
If you ask politely, they will even allow you to carry the damn thing on your person, wherever and whenever they allow.
No. Thanks.
My 329 pd locked up on me 2 times years ago while shooting . Never had a problem with all steel revolvers however . Originally sent it back to Smith then got it back and it did it again. I deleted lock and no problems
BoulderTroll
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You've been on the forum for 11 years. I guess I'm mostly just surprised you think there is something that hasn't been discussed on the topic.
I carry a key on my keychain. Even when I'm not using one of those revolvers.
Never know when the key will come in handy. Had a non-gun friend (maybe a copper or druggie, I forget) say, "that looks like a coke spoon".
grizz700
Member
I am not for or against the lock as I have no experience with the locks as I only buy the older versions because I prefer the looks of them without the hole and I prefer the bigger cyl thumb release. Several years ago I bought about a dozen of the old style thumb releases and when I buy a prelock with the aerodynamic cyl release I remove it and put the old style on.
I’ve shot some revolvers with the IL, and they’re not bad. My preference is older models with no MIM parts and no IL for aesthetics and retaining greater value.
Yendor357
Member
The lock is easy enough to remove and plug. If I can do it, must not be too difficult.
I only wish the companies that make the plug, would make it look like a screw head like the safety delete for a Marlin.
With the new Smiths coming out without the lock, it’s going to soon be a non issue.
I only wish the companies that make the plug, would make it look like a screw head like the safety delete for a Marlin.
With the new Smiths coming out without the lock, it’s going to soon be a non issue.
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