Does Speer still make a 158 gr. SWCHP? That should do a good job for those who like the simpler things.
soft lead wadcutters
- Thread starter hotrod150
- Start date
Does Speer still make a 158 gr. SWCHP? That should do a good job for those who like the simpler things.
The improved version
The Speer Gold Dot® bullets are the modern version of the reversed wadcutter with the large cavity but are improved by controlled expansion at actual handgun velocities compared to older JHP bullets that could not be counted on to expand especially at short barrel velocities (85% failure to expand). I'd prefer the Gold Dot or another improved bullet like the XTP® first, followed by a SWCHP, followed by full wadcutter followed by any pellet of lead that could put a hole in someone. If not any of those I'd throw my gun at the perp.
The Speer Gold Dot® bullets are the modern version of the reversed wadcutter with the large cavity but are improved by controlled expansion at actual handgun velocities compared to older JHP bullets that could not be counted on to expand especially at short barrel velocities (85% failure to expand). I'd prefer the Gold Dot or another improved bullet like the XTP® first, followed by a SWCHP, followed by full wadcutter followed by any pellet of lead that could put a hole in someone. If not any of those I'd throw my gun at the perp.
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OP
hotrod150
Member
The Speer swaged 158 gr SWC-HP is still mfr'd, in fact Midway even (currently) has them in stock. Kind of the standard projectile for the "FBI load".
ChuckS1
US Veteran
My opinion on .38 wadcutters for SD loads is maybe you'll get lucky and when it starts to tumble you hit the bad guy when it's sideways. 
If you want a bigger hole than .357, get a M1911A1.
If you want a bigger hole than .357, get a M1911A1.
Well hell, a .44 Mag, or .500 S&W is even better, or better yet is an M1 Garand...My opinion on .38 wadcutters for SD loads is maybe you'll get lucky and when it starts to tumble you hit the bad guy when it's sideways.
If you want a bigger hole than .357, get a M1911A1.
OP
hotrod150
Member
I loaded some 148 gr hardcast wadcutters over 5.0 W231 and they shot all right, no flat primers or anything, but decided to back it back down to 4.5 for the sake of the longevity of my j-frames and to reduce recoil a bit (didn't really notice any reduction).
Waywatcher
Member
Holy cats!
I chrono'ed my 148 DEWCs over a mere 3.6 grains of Win 231 at an average of 854 fps out of my 4" Model 15, which is plenty fast and makes a 125 power factor.
What data are you using?
I chrono'ed my 148 DEWCs over a mere 3.6 grains of Win 231 at an average of 854 fps out of my 4" Model 15, which is plenty fast and makes a 125 power factor.
What data are you using?
OP
hotrod150
Member
Waywatcher, I kind of extrapolate from different sources. My primary source is my old Speer book # 10. It shows maximum W231 charges as 4.7 gr with their swaged 148 gr BBWC, 4.4 gr with their swaged 158 gr SWC, 5.5.gr with their 140 gr JHP, and 5.4 gr with their 158 gr JHP (that last two are +P). I figured 4.5 behind either a hardcast 148 gr WC or a swaged 158 gr SWC-HP was safe and I seem to have been right so far. Even though it says "wadcutters are not suitable for high velocity loads", my Hornady book #3 shows 4.2 gr W231 behinbd their 148 gr HBWC for a velocity of 950 fps. Not too shabby!
I'm not loading to make some arbitrary power factor for competition, I'm loading ammo for both practice and actual self-defense purposes and I figure the more power the better. God forbid I ever have to shoot someone, but if I do I don't want them getting up again after they're shot.
I'm not loading to make some arbitrary power factor for competition, I'm loading ammo for both practice and actual self-defense purposes and I figure the more power the better. God forbid I ever have to shoot someone, but if I do I don't want them getting up again after they're shot.
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hotrod150
Member
Have you ever chronographed this load? I have a "Chrony" which I hadn't used in years, when I attempted to chronograph some 38 spl loads more recently it didn't seem to be working correctly. Maybe just a bad battery, but I never followed through on fixing it. I'm guestimating both my 4.5 W231/148 WC load & my 4.5 W231/ 158 SWC-HP load at somewhere between 800 & 850 out of my 2" j-frames.
OP
hotrod150
Member
I just checked out that site, besides not currently accepting any orders due to being backlogged, it looks like Magnus only makes hardcast bullets now.
Waywatcher
Member
Lyman 49th shows a max of 4.2 grains of Win 231.
Hornady 7th shows a max of 3.5 grains of Win 231.
Speer #14 shows a max of 3.3 grains of Win 231.
Hodgdon shows a max of 4.0 grains of Win 231.
These four current sources, averaged, are 3.8 grains of Win 231. I think what you are doing is unsafe, and I am posting this time primarily for other readers of this thread, so someone doesn't think it's a good idea to copy you. Going off of 33 year old data, when there is current data from the same company that categorically obsoletes their previous data, is a recipe for disaster. People reading should be fully informed that you are well beyond current and accepted loading data.
Hornady 7th shows a max of 3.5 grains of Win 231.
Speer #14 shows a max of 3.3 grains of Win 231.
Hodgdon shows a max of 4.0 grains of Win 231.
These four current sources, averaged, are 3.8 grains of Win 231. I think what you are doing is unsafe, and I am posting this time primarily for other readers of this thread, so someone doesn't think it's a good idea to copy you. Going off of 33 year old data, when there is current data from the same company that categorically obsoletes their previous data, is a recipe for disaster. People reading should be fully informed that you are well beyond current and accepted loading data.
Bohica793
Member
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The swaged are all the way at the bottom of the page. If you call them they will probably take your order.
Speaking of tumblng
I quit shooting targets with a 2" snub/158 gr JHP because the bullets keyholed really badly. Maybe for an SD situation that would be a good thing to happen.
I quit shooting targets with a 2" snub/158 gr JHP because the bullets keyholed really badly. Maybe for an SD situation that would be a good thing to happen.
OP
hotrod150
Member
I feel that my warms are warm, but safe. You should remember that reloading manuals seem to be listing lighter loads as their max these days, due I believe to liability concerns- not necesarily because they are unsafe. Also realize that most loads shown for lead bullets are target loads, NOT high-performance loads.
My 4.5 gr W231 / hardcast 148 gr BBWC load is .2 less than what my speer book lists as max for a swaged 148 gr BBWC, and my 4.5 W231 / swaged 158 gr SWC load is only .1 more than my speer book lists as max- and those are both standard pressure (not +P) listings. I'm no professional loader, balistician, or pressure-tester, and I don't expect anyone else to take my word on what is or isn't safe- I'm just mentioning them for others' review and amusement. If you think these loads are unsafe, by all means do NOT try them. And thanks for speaking up and pointing out that they are NOT "approved" loads, I wouldn't want anyone to get the idea that I am guaranteeing them as such.
My 4.5 gr W231 / hardcast 148 gr BBWC load is .2 less than what my speer book lists as max for a swaged 148 gr BBWC, and my 4.5 W231 / swaged 158 gr SWC load is only .1 more than my speer book lists as max- and those are both standard pressure (not +P) listings. I'm no professional loader, balistician, or pressure-tester, and I don't expect anyone else to take my word on what is or isn't safe- I'm just mentioning them for others' review and amusement. If you think these loads are unsafe, by all means do NOT try them. And thanks for speaking up and pointing out that they are NOT "approved" loads, I wouldn't want anyone to get the idea that I am guaranteeing them as such.
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First I never average anything in my reloading. My load development starts with starting loads (or very near, sometimes I'll round off a load from mebbe .3 up to .5 for a start load, just for convince) As I stated "Don't quote me on this" meaning I use this and your results may vary. I also stated this load is "a hair over max.", which in my Lyman is 4.2 gr. W231 (.3 gr. can be considered a hair, and not even close to "well beyond current accepted loading data") and I started way below this and worked up. It is a safe load in all my .38 Specials and while over max. it is barely into the +P zone.
I rarely give any load data on line because I wouldn't pay any attention to anyone else's data on line. I don't use any load data from forum experts, range rats, gun counter clerks or gun shop "Gurus". 95% on all my data comes from printed manuals and the other 5% is double checked against a printed reloading manual. I haven't run out of load possibilities using this idea for nearly 30 years of reloading.
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M3Stuart
Member
South West Casting sells a bevel-base, button-nose 148gr wadcutter. By the way; it's hard to find, but the OAL is 1.295" as I recall.
