Some .38 Special Chronograph Tests

[bmcgilvray]

This thread was resurrected to finish posting some accumulated data.

We chronographed and accuracy tested 3 different concoctions, two target loads and a higher performance concoction in January of this year, over a 3 day period in which we had glorious weather for excursions to the range.

Revolvers used were the same as before:

Smith & Wesson Model 10 2-inch
Smith & Wesson Model 10 HB 4-inch
Smith & Wesson Military & Police 5-inch
Smith & Wesson Model 27 .357 Magnum 6-inch
Smith & Wesson Model 14 .38 Special 8 3/8-inch


Two loads performed pretty well as expected. One of them was new and one was a more thorough retest. A third load was a puzzler that yielded velocities far higher than expected.

A new load for me made use of Green Dot. I think I remember trying a can of Green Dot back in the late 1970s but made no notes about it. This load uses TVB's excellent 148 grain double-ended wadcutter.

148 grain TVB DEWC/3.7 grains Green Dot

2-Inch Barrel
Muzzle Velocity: 669 fps
Muzzle Energy: 147 ft./lbs
Extreme Spread: 45
Standard Deviation: 23

4-Inch Barrel
MV: 706 fps
ME: 164 ft./lbs.
ES: 43 fps
SD: 14 fps

5-Inch Barrel
MV: 735 fps
ME: 179 ft./lbs.
ES: 17 fps
SD: 7 fps

6-Inch Barrel
MV: 690 fps
ME: 156 ft./lbs.
ES: 31 fps
SD: 13 fps

8 3/8-Inch Barrel
MV: 775 fps
ME: 197 ft./lbs.
ES: 73 fps
SD: 33 fps


Next up is an old standard, the 148 grain hollow-base wadcutter backed by 2.8 grains of Bulls-Eye. It performed in January much the same as it did 30 years ago. The good Hornady 148 grain HBWC bullet was used.

148 grain HBWC/2.8 grains Bulls-Eye

2-Inch Barrel
MV: 643 fps
ME: 136 ft./lbs.
ES: 29 fps
ES: 12 fps

4-Inch Barrel
MV: 689 fps
MV: 156 ft./lbs.
ES: 42 fps
SD: 17 fps

5-Inch Barrel
MV: 712 fps
ME: 167 ft./lbs.
ES: 20 fps
SD: 9

6-Inch Barrel
MV: 693 fps
ME: 158 ft./lbs.
ES: 37 fps
SD: 16 fps

8 3/8-Inch Barrel
MV: 765 fps
ME: 192 ft./lbs.
ES: 33 fps
SD: 12 fps

This last load tested didn't behave as expected. Using a 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter I've previously tested 4.8 grains of Unique and 5.4 grains of Unique on a few occasions so thought to split the difference and test 5.1 grains of Unique. I wasn't expecting anything out of the ordinary but it gave considerably higher velocities in all barrel lengths than 5.4 grains of Unique did in previous tests. I re-checked the distance between the sky-screens to find it correct. I weighed the bullets and they checked out 158-159 grains and were .358" in diameter. I broke down a handloaded cartridge to re-weigh the powder charge and it checked out correctly. It felt quite lively after shooting a lot of the light 148 grain loads.

I felt unsatisfied and displeased after testing this one because I can't explain it.

158 grain lead SWC/5.1 grains Unique

2-Inch Barrel
MV: 922 fps
ME: 298 ft./lbs.
ES: 40 fps
SD: 19 fps

4-Inch Barrel
MV: 987 fps
ME: 342 ft./lbs.
ES: 67 fps
SD: 28 fps

5-Inch Barrel
MV: 1031 fps
ME: 373 ft./lbs
ES: 37 fps
SD: 15 fps

6-Inch Barrel
MV: 1018 fps
ME: 364 ft./lbs
ES: 33 fps
SD: 14 fps

8 3/8-Inch Barrel
MV: 1117 fps
ME: 426 ft./lbs.
ES: 34 fps
SD: 15 fps

I probably shouldn't have subjected the 5-inch Smith & Wesson Military & Police revolver to testing with this Unique handload due to the revolver's age. Won't do that again.

The 5-inch M&P seems to show a pattern of consistent velocity performance with most loads tested in it, both last week and last summer.

The Model 27 frequently registers lower velocities than the 5-inch M&P with the same loads.

The Green Dot load with the 148 grain DEWC bullet grouped about as well as the HBWC bullet loaded with Bulls-Eye. The Green Dot load didn't seem to foul the revolvers but was very smoky to shoot and I don't think it was from the bullet lube. It could just be a characteristic of the powder. I've still got a lot of Green Dot in the can so will play with it some more. It doesn't seem to display any especially endearing characteristics over other fast burning powders.

It's only three loads but a whole lot of shooting was involved, mostly because the great weather encouraged it. Revisiting the data I recall that the afternoon temperature was in the low 50s on that week in January. Hard to remember how that feels since we've "enjoyed" 100F or more for the month of June. I had great fun shooting the revolvers for group.

Here are some target highlights from the load tests. Targets where significant operator error was in evidence were not photographed but only the best efforts. There were lots of targets that started out with promise but came to grief with a bullet hole "off towards Jones."

5-shot groups predominated because it was convenient to load one row from a 50 round box. Most groups were shot from 10 yards.

Here are examples of the best effort in the Model 14. One each of the Green Dot load and Bulls-Eye load, the Green Dot load being on the left.

Plebeian Model 10s can group right along side the so called target models. One each of the Green Dot load and Bulls-Eye load, the Green Dot load again being on the left.

A slightly heavier, but still crisp, single action trigger and less user-friendly sights make shooting the oldie M&P a bit more of a chore but it still turned in a decent performance.

The best effort with the Model 10 2-inch in single action mode at 10 yards with the 158 grain SWC/5.1 grains of Unique load.

Best single action group at 10 yards with the Model 14 using 158 grain SWC with 5.1 grains of Unique.

A double-action group shot rapid-fire from 10 yards with the Model 10 and the 158 SWC/5.1 Unique load.

A more deliberate double-action attempt at 7 yards with the 5-inch M&P and the 158 gr. SWC/5/1 gr Unique load.

 

[bmcgilvray]

I ran the .38 Special revolvers through the wringer a few weeks ago, working up and testing some performance handloads. The tests concentrated on four different loads, all using 158 grain lead SWC bullets. As always, the same four revolvers were used, 2 of which have been used for many years as in all .38 Special chronograph testing.

Smith & Wesson Model 10 2-inch
Smith & Wesson Model 10 Heavy Barrel 4-inch
Smith & Wesson Model 27 6-inch (since no 6-inch 38 Special was on hand)
Smith & Wesson Model 14 8 3/8-inch

The bullets tested were from a batch I cast perhaps 20-25 years ago using the Lyman No. 358156 mould. They actually weighed 159-160 grains. They were well-formed with nice sharp shoulders and bases. They were made from straight wheel weights with some range lead thrown in as I recall (not very scientific I'll admit). They were lubed with stick Alox. I was a bit concerned that the lube would be dried out but the bullets didn't seem to lead too badly despite being abused with heavy handloads. At the conclusion of the tests the revolvers scrubbed up easily with no sterner measures required to "get the lead out."

Loads tested

The loads tested were published loads from "back in the day." Loading manuals are more mild mannered these days.

5.4 grains of Unique
This was published as maximum by Lyman for many years. I think Erich nicknamed it the "Texas FBI Load" and it does make a good substitute for the factory +P 158 grain lead SWC load. The latest formulation of Unique was used for the tests. Unique seems to be "jazzed up" a bit from that used in tests 30 years ago. I first noticed this when testing Unique earlier this year.

5.0 grains of Herco
This was prepared on a whim, just to see what it could do. 5.0 grains seems to be around maximum in most data sources though the infamous Speer No. 8 shows a maximum of 6.5 grains of Herco. It was decided not to take Herco that high.

11.5 grains of 2400
This also was a published maximum by Lyman for many years. Some folks considered this to be a .38-44 equivalent handload for the .38 Special. The latest formulation of 2400 was used. I'd tested this load many years ago but the data didn't get recorded for some reason so a retest was needed. I was curious about the performance level of 2400 with the 158 grain lead SWC in the .38 Special.

8.0 grains of SR 4756
"The Load" It's bigger! it's better! It'll give all the performance one can squeeze out of the .38 Special. This is the starting load for this powder as published in the Speer No. 8 guide. I'd hate to try to work this one up to the maximum listed charge weight which is only one grain higher. Whether it is advisable to use even the listed starting load is subject to debate. Probably not. The Speer No. 8 was compiled in the late 1960s. Maybe they were smoking "cigarettes and all kinds of things" while working up loads in their lab back then.

Since we'd already tested 5.1 grains of Unique earlier this year we didn't bother to work up to maximum with it. With the other loads the effort was made to work from arbitrary lower levels in .2 grain increments toward the goal charge weights. Herco was worked up from 4.6 grains. 2400 was worked up from 10.5 grains and SR 4756 was worked up from 7.5 grains.

Working up the three loads in three different .38 Special revolvers was a bit tedious and, frankly I'm not certain that much may be determined by doing this in the .38 Special given its normal operating pressure levels. I wonder if any of the assumed pressure "signs" can be reached until one is operating fully within .357 Magnum territory which is far beyond .38 Special levels. Only the SR 4756 load showed a dab of cratering and that was in my old favorite 4-inch Model 10. Cases for all 4 loads gave normal ejection in all revolvers. Of course both "The Load" and the max. 2400 load could be straying closer to .357 Magnum levels.

Some limited range time was spent shooting these loads at paper to see what sort of accuracy may be expected of them. I'm thinking that the .38 Special revolvers were grateful to see the backside of these tests.

158 Grain Lead SWC/5.4 Grains of Unique

2-inch Barrel
MV 964 fps
ME 326 ft./lbs
ES 75 fps
SD 33 fps

4-inch Barrel
MV 1026 fps
ME 369 ft/lbs.
ES 31 fps
SD 13.4 fps

6-inch Barrel
MV 1047 fps
ME 385 ft./lbs.
ES 43 fps
SD 16.6 fps

8 3/8-inch Barrel
MV 1149 fps
ME 463 ft./lbs.
ES 56 fps
SD 23.3 fps


158 Grain Lead SWC/5.0 Grains Herco

2-inch Barrel
MV 912 fps
ME 292 ft./lbs.
ES 38 fps
SD 14.3 fps

4-inch Barrel
MV 964 fps
ME 326 ft./lbs.
ES 34 fps
SD 14.5 fps

6-inch Barrel
MV 976 fps
ME 334 ft./lbs.
ES 64 fps
SD 23.7 fps

8 3/8-inch Barrel
MV 1069 fps
ME 401 ft./lbs.
ES 83 fps
SD 33.1 fps


158 Grain Lead SWC/11.5 Grains 2400

2-inch Barrel
MV 1037 fps
ME 377 ft./lbs.
ES 71 fps
SD 30.2 fps

4-inch Barrel
MV 1150 fps
ME 464 ft./lbs.
ES 50 fps
SD 26.8

6-inch Barrel
MV 1162 fps
ME 474 ft./lbs.
ES 58 fps
SD 22.2 fps

8 3/8-inch Barrel
MV 1102 fps
ME 426 ft./lbs.
ES 67 fps
SD 24.0 fps


158 Grain Lead SWC/8.0 Grains SR 4756

2-inch Barrel
MV 1150 fps
ME 464 ft./lbs.
ES 51 fps
SD 26.5 fps

4-inch Barrel
MV 1234 fps
ME 534 ft./lbs.
ES 23 fps
SD 12.3

6-inch Barrel
MV 1251 fps
ME 549 ft./lbs.
ES 23 fps
SD 8.9 fps

8 3/8-inch Barrel
MV 1173 fps
ME 483 ft./lbs.
ES 18 fps
SD 7.7 fps


It will be noted that the slower powders still register the highest velocities in the short barrel.

During this test it was surprising to find that both 2400 and SR 4756 gave higher velocities when fired out of the 4-inch and the 6-inch barrels rather than when fired out of the 8 3/8-inch barrel. This has never occurred before and I can't explain it.

It appears that the 2400 load can duplicate the performance of the Buffalo Bore +P 158 grain lead SWC factory load and that "The Load" can whip the Buffalo Bore factory load except in the 8 3/8-inch barrel of the Model 14. Buffalo Bore was the velocity champion in that barrel with the 158 grain bullet weight, strange as it may seem.

How stressful these handloads are compared to the Buffalo Bore load is hard to say. All are probably high pressure with "The Load" likely winning the prize. No primers pierced or flowed and a hint of cratering was only observed on a few, but not all of the primers in the Model 10 Heavy Barrel when used with "The Load." All cases dribbled out of cylinders when started with the ejector rod.

Recoil was brisk but very manageable in the two Model 10s. In the Model 27 and the long-barreled Model 14 recoil doesn't amount to much. All gave a snappy report and "The Load" seemed to give a particularly evil crack. Perhaps it's all in my head though.

"The Load" damaged one my spinning quail discs. I was using the top of a disc for an aiming reference for chronographing and a round fired from the 6-inch Model 27 went high, smacking a quail right on it's narrow welded base, nearly tearing it off the target frame. It has already been mended.

So ends the .38 Special test epic. It only lacked two days taking a year to accomplish the handload testing goals. There are always factory loads to try and I still have to get some of that pesky W231 so I'll be testing .38 Special some more in future. I don't see anything else interesting to try when testing really heavy handloads in the .38 Special so will probably not venture into that phase again.

I was hoping to shoot off a couple of the F A '26 .45 ACP cartridges I recently picked up, being able to say that they still gave a good performance over the chronograph screens after all these years, but several tries on two of the three were a bust. They were duds. I saved the best looking one for the collection.

Do not anticipate the same results by using the same powder charge weights in your own revolvers. Carefully work up to any load. Take any handloading information found on internet forums with a grain of salt.

This means you!

 

[bmcgilvray]

Some mediocre results from efforts to put the loads on paper, burning up the remainder of the test loads. While it was very windy at the range, these targets represent the best of an embarrassing lot. The rest were best forgotten.

The 2-inch Model 10 and 5.4 grains of Unique. Shot the left target at 10 yards in single action mode . Also showing a spontaneous 25 yard effort, also shot single action. It was the only revolver that was unlimbered at 25 yards. I'd thought to make a bit longer effort with the snub in order to show it off. Didn't work out and there wasn't enough ammo for a second attempt. This was a 6-shot attempt. Note the merest hit of a bullet clip on the right side of the target.

Here's the 4-inch Model 10 HB with "The Load." 10 yards, both single action and double action.

The 8 3/8-inch and a single action group (group you say?) at 10 yards with the 2400 load.

It's a sure bet that these weren't target handloads. The revolvers didn't seem to be excessively leaded by visual examination and proved not to be difficult to clean.

It is possible to equal the Buffalo Bore +P 158 grain factory loads by reaching back to data in older handloading manuals but I'd be sorely tempted to load with Buffalo Bore for self defense purposes since such handloads can't be pressure tested. These loads were worked up but they still could be too much of a good thing for any type of long term use.

Perhaps these loads would have some hunting application but it would be easier to leave the .38 Special at home and just go with the .357 Magnum.

 

[ddixie884]

BMc great info as usual. Just goes to show, the .38spl is a very under rated and emasculated round. You have a tendency to reawaken the lost potential of older calibers. THANX for sharing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LouisianaMan]

Finally took time to sit down and read this entire thread, and it is some very good work indeed! Thanks, Brian, for a great write-up. Wish I could go back 30 years with test data, but I'm not sure I would have been able to distinguish between a chronograph and a TV antenna back then! (Remember "regular" TV antennas??)

I found all the data & analysis interesting, but of course must single out the 200g bullet info for special mention I've recently cast some 200g LSWC (from a group buy mold on Cast Boolits) and can only imagine how many milk jugs they would smash through at your velocities! They'd probably still be traveling. . . .I didn't calculate free recoil on your loads, but think that it would provide a good excuse to buy an old N-frame .38-44! Maybe you can treat yourself to one to commemorate the project. . . ?

It's always interesting to see how different loads seem to have sweet spots, and like you I noticed that the 5" barrel seems to let a lot of loads show off with optimum velocities and tiny ES/SD numbers. The 4" is also a great platform, isn't it?

Thanks for all the effort & I'll be certain to bookmark this thread!

Dana

 

[bmcgilvray]

Thank you for your kind comments, ddxie884!

Hi Dana;

I'm still interested in 200 grain bullets too and also in .38 S&W. I just haven't been able to keep up with maintaining supplies of ammo for regular shooting to do a proper look at .38 S&W.

Have a bunch of sized, once-fired .38 S&W on the bench, your sack of 200 grain bullets, some dandy 148 grain DEWCs, some 158 grain SWCs, some older 200 grain handloads, and of course boxes of factory loads. The next chronograph session will be for the old wheezer .38 S&W.

May get some bullets poked into cases next week. Family activities on the 4th are about to consume me, not that I mind.

 

[dcxplant]

Your hard and thorough work is very much appreciated!!

This validates my choice of using a J-frame for daily carry.

It's a gun I'll carry every day, and I am 100% confidant that a shot placed in the critical zone will stop the threat, probably with extreme prejudice.

Thanks again, very useful info and this thread is exactly why I joined this forum.

DcXplant

 

[cjw3]

This is really an excellent post; I love to see others' chronograph results to compare with my own.

The 5.4/Unique load with 158 SWC is a favorite load of mine. Also, you have demonstrated something a few of us have known for a good while: 2400 is a viable choice for top velocities in .38 Special, regardless of barrel length. Working at the upper end of the data and employing a heavy crimp optimizes it and keeps the unburned powder residue to a minimum.

Thanks for all the hard work; I've sat at a bench and squinted at numbers on that little screen enough to know that it can be a job, especially when the weather is hot.

 

[Will Carry]

Thanks for all the work in compiling that data. That is meaty. Just the facts mam' and no bull.

 

[CS36]

A wealth of information. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

 

[Frank46]

lead Bullet selfdefense loads

Been following the recent testing and found the results pretty interesting. Thanks for taking the time and ammo to put this together. My CCW is a S&W model 36 and would like to experiment on my own regarding the 158swc +p loads as an alternative to the remington golden sabers that I now use.
I have seen 158 gr loads manufactured by Federal carrying the number 38G but have a funny feeling that that isn't what I'm looking for. If someone would post the codes would make it easier to try and find the 158+pones. As always all help will be greatly appreciated. Plan to try them out in a model 36 and a model 10 w4"bbl. Thanks, Frank

 

[photoman]

38G is the correct number for the "FBI" 158gr LHP+P load. One of the most street proven .38 Special loads ever. Remington also makes them (R38S12) and Winchester (X38SPD).

That load and the Speer 135gr Gold Dot short barrel (NYPD) load are probably the two .38 Special loads with the highest number of actual shootings to look at and they both work very well.

 

[Old cop]

Re: Buffalo Bore +P . . . When fired from my Model 638-3 it suffers from sticky extraction to the point I have to pull the empty cases out by hand. Recoil is stiff but OK for an experienced shooter. Due to the extraction problems I switched to CorBon +P DPX 110 in my light guns and save the BB stuff for the K frame magnums.

I find that I have better control with the CorBon stuff and bullet placement is what this is all about.

 

[Frank46]

Thanks for the information. Frank

 

[Frank V]

Re: Buffalo Bore +P . . . When fired from my Model 638-3 it suffers from sticky extraction to the point I have to pull the empty cases out by hand. Recoil is stiff but OK for an experienced shooter. Due to the extraction problems I switched to CorBon +P DPX 110 in my light guns and save the BB stuff for the K frame magnums.

I find that I have better control with the CorBon stuff and bullet placement is what this is all about.

I know I'm late here (Happy New Year) but Buffalo bore has a 158gr lead SWC HP that is not +p & says non+p on the box. Standard Pressure Short Barrel Low Flash HVY 38 SPL (NON+P), This is written right on the box. The # is 20C-158gr. It says soft lead SWC-HC @ 850fps.

My .38 is an early one probably before +P. I've chronographed this load at an honest 876fps from a 2" bbl.
You may want to try this load.
Frank

 

[bmcgilvray]

Hi Frank;

876 fps with a 158 grain lead SWC is just plain good enough, I don't care what anybody says. I can live with that kind of a load in a snub .38 Special from now on.

In fact, my snubs are carried stoked with the Remington +P 158 grain version and they don't quite make that velocity from the short barrels. They'll still deliver adequate .38 Special goodness though.

 

[Texas Star]

Keep in mind that a three-inch barrel will give velocity about 75-80 FPS over that of a true snub. That Buffalo Bore non Plus P round must be pretty effective from a three-inch gun, and I agree with Brian that it should fare well, even from a snub.

I think I'd feel most comfortable shooting the Plus-P equivalent from a .357. That post about it giving sticky extraction from a Model 38 concerns me. Keep in mind that this refers only to Buffalo Bore Plus P, which is quite a bit hotter than for most brands.

 

[71vette]

Excellent posts!

I've also been a big fan of the BB "FBI" load. I use that and Corbon 110gr +P DPX in my short-barrels. I just picked up two boxes of the non plus-P 158 loads for my earlier snubs (37 and an early Colt Cobra).

 

[coach22]

This is the ammo in my 340 PD.

Heavy .38 Special +P Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

In my 640 (38), 442 and 49, it's BB Standard Pressure 158's.

A close second choice would be Corbon DPX 110 +P's.

 

[bmcgilvray]

I have to confess to being a .38 Special bullet weight "snob," preferring to leave the paltry lightweight 110-125 grain bullets to insignificant cartridges like .380 and 9mm (heh). I've had such good results with the 158 grain lead SWC loadings over the years, both standard velocity and "+P", that I'll happily stick with it. I've seen nothing in all the tests and charts bandied about, along with all the photos of expanded bullets and bullet-holed gel, that convinces me that it is necessary for a change. I know where the 158 grain loadings hit with my favorite .38 Specials and have observed through the years what they do on critters up to deer and large feral dogs.

Most +P 158 grain loadings come with hollow points but I'm not even a stickler for the hollow point in the .38 Special or other non-magnum revolver cartridges. Perhaps for the faster stepping magnum revolver rounds they have some marked value,especially for game shooting.

Texas Star mentions: "That post about it giving sticky extraction from a Model 38 concerns me.

I was contemplating some of the .44 Special handloads I've cooked up experimentally in the past after making a post the other day on another forum.

In pushing the envelop a bit with .38 Special, .44 Special, and .45 Auto Rim I've never happened to encounter sticky extraction with even the most "enthusiastic" handloads tried. I have to wonder if one can push non-magnum straight-walled revolver cartridges hard enough to even get to sticky extraction. That's not saying that too-heavy handloads can't be damaging in them for they can and will damage. All I've ever noticed though were flattened, and in a few instances cratered, primers.

When chronographing that heavy +P 158 grain Buffalo Bore loading, the only revolver of the four used in the test that exhibited primer flattening was my old favorite Model 10 Heavy Barrel and it showed flattening on two of six chambers. The cases however, still just fell out of it as normal with the lightest caress of the extractor.

In playing with straight-walled magnum cartridges in the upper reaches of barely sane handloading one will get sticky extraction if he's taken things a bit too far.

Can a fellow experience sticky extraction in a .38 Special revolver when the same ammunition is fired in revolver chambered for the .357 Magnum with effortless extraction?

What say ye?