Gudrum
Member
I Frame
Here is my lovely. I traded a STAR PS .45 to bring her home.
Here is my lovely. I traded a STAR PS .45 to bring her home.
Some I-frame ?'s
- Thread starter Green Frog
- Start date
Gudrum,
That's a fine little pre 1930 era with mushroom ejector knob prewar .32 you have there. Looks like original factory nickel too. You may want to consider some delicate cleanup of the surface scratches with Flitz or Semi chrome polish. It doesn't hurt the originality and will make that nickel look near new.
That's a fine little pre 1930 era with mushroom ejector knob prewar .32 you have there. Looks like original factory nickel too. You may want to consider some delicate cleanup of the surface scratches with Flitz or Semi chrome polish. It doesn't hurt the originality and will make that nickel look near new.
Wow, Jim! What a tour-de-force presentation of the post-war changes in the little Smiths. Thank you very much indeed. I know I will take that response, with pix, and put a good printout into my copy of SCSW for definitive future reference.
One little discrepancy on my example of a pure post-War .32 HE, #550XXX that I want to mention, is that it has the low style grips like the pearls shown in the picture next to your pure post war. The checkering is pretty worn and I haven't really measured it yet, but it seems finer than the other post-War examples I have seen. They are numbered to the gun (two lines, stamped) so I assume this must mean they were produced prior to those mini-magnas(?)
Just FYI it has a two line roll mark on the left side of the (2") barrel with the SMITH & WESSON line centered and the 32 LONG CTG line below it. It has the small logo on the left side of the frame below the late style thumb latch and the four line patent information on the right side of the frame in the expected place. I see serial numbers on the bottom of the grip frame, the bottom of the barrel, the rear of the cylinder, and inside the grip as well as assembly numbers on the crane and the recess of the frame behind the crane. Finally, though fairly worn, the finish appears to have been somewhat dull all along, which would agree with what you lead me to expect.
Again, thanks for that absolutely spectacular summary you gave. I for one am going to refer to it a lot in the future!
Best regards,
Charlie Shaeff
the Green Frog
Thank you Charlie, it was my pleasure. I've been meaning to get it all down in writing for some time.
Please note, late last night I was writing from memory. After reading it over again today I noticed a few things I neglected to include and just added them. So if you copied already, you may want to make a new copy. And we should get additional feedback from the experts which I will include. There's just too much for one person to know.
I have no doubt that your #550XXX has original grips and not really a discrepency just another example that with S&W, "The main rule is, there are no rules." If your grips have the fine 16 lpi checkering they most likely also have the sharp cornered borders.
Thanks for reminding me about the 2 line, left side barrel marking. That is standard on 2" barrels and I'll go back and add that. I guarantee you that your serial number is in all six places. With cylinder open, look at the back side of the crane thru one of the chambers with a flashlight. Also look under the extractor star.
Thanks for a great thread.
Gudrum
Member
Jim, thanks for the information, I was wondering what I could do to cleanher up a little. I'll get some Fritz and give it a try. If the weather cooperates tomarrow I'm going to take the.32 and my new M&P for a walk down range.
Ray
Ray
MKT
Member
Here are a couple more I frames for you to enjoy, unfortunately no 6 inch or Target Models.
First off is my pair of Regulation Police, one in .38 S&W the other in .32 S&W Long. The blued one is the .38 and the nickel is the .32.
A nice shot of the patent markings on the barrel of the .32
And finally, my Pre-32 Terrier in .38 S&W, which I believe is the Improved I Frame.
First off is my pair of Regulation Police, one in .38 S&W the other in .32 S&W Long. The blued one is the .38 and the nickel is the .32.
A nice shot of the patent markings on the barrel of the .32
And finally, my Pre-32 Terrier in .38 S&W, which I believe is the Improved I Frame.
And finally, my Pre-32 Terrier in .38 S&W, which I believe is the Improved I Frame.
It's a beauty and it is an Improved I frame. But it's a Model of 1953 2nd Improved. It has the coil mainspring but it also has the J frame size rd butt, 2nd style flat latch and larger egg shaped trigger guard. Yet the early hammer of the 1st improvement era.
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spinnerbaitor48
Member
guys, this is a great site, thanks for having me...wish i had found this one a long time ago....
OP
Green Frog
Member
Well, I tried to take Jim's posting off as a Word file, and first it looked good, but it wouldn't export the pictures. So, I exported the pictures separately and printed each as a full 8X10 and then put the text into plain print style. This is my archival copy to insert into my copy of SCSW and a good addition it is! 
Thanks again, Jim, for taking the time to put all of that information into such a clear and well organized posting. I would encourage everyone interested in the "miniature S&Ws" to do as I have and save a hard copy, because I very much doubt you will find a better summary of all of that information anywhere else.
I took my "miniature niece" to the indoor range this afternoon and had her shooting a 3" Model 30-1 and a 3" .32 HE (Post-War 1st Improvement) along with my .22 HFT (even with the bulged barrel.) I shot the .22 along with my .32 pre-War 6" Reg Police and my 2" Pure Post-War .32 HE. Great way to spend a Sunday afternoon!
the Happy Frog
PS As I said earlier, I started this thread with the hopes that it would stir up a little interest in these neat little Smiths, the I-frames. You guys have responded far beyond my fondest hopes.
Jim's opus was a bonus I didn't even dream would come to us and the pictures you guys are posting have been eye candy of the sweetest kind. 
For the rest of you, it is not too late. More pix, comments, reminisces, etc are welcome and encouraged! 
Thanks again, Jim, for taking the time to put all of that information into such a clear and well organized posting. I would encourage everyone interested in the "miniature S&Ws" to do as I have and save a hard copy, because I very much doubt you will find a better summary of all of that information anywhere else.
I took my "miniature niece" to the indoor range this afternoon and had her shooting a 3" Model 30-1 and a 3" .32 HE (Post-War 1st Improvement) along with my .22 HFT (even with the bulged barrel.) I shot the .22 along with my .32 pre-War 6" Reg Police and my 2" Pure Post-War .32 HE. Great way to spend a Sunday afternoon!
the Happy Frog PS As I said earlier, I started this thread with the hopes that it would stir up a little interest in these neat little Smiths, the I-frames. You guys have responded far beyond my fondest hopes.
Jim's opus was a bonus I didn't even dream would come to us and the pictures you guys are posting have been eye candy of the sweetest kind. For the rest of you, it is not too late. More pix, comments, reminisces, etc are welcome and encouraged!
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Let me try to do something systematic about frame variations in the 1903 to early postwar I-frames.
They had adjustable sights or they didn't.
They had rebated frames or they didn't.
They had frame-mounted firing pins or they didn't.
Based on these three distinguishing features, we may observe:
Adjustable sight guns can be found with both types of firing pin and both types of grip frame. Fixed sight guns can be found with both types of grip frame, but only with hammer-mounted firing pins.
Non-rebated frames can be found with both fixed and adjustable sights. Rebated frames can also be found with both fixed and adjustable sights.
Frame-mounted firing pins are found with both types of grip frame, but do not appear on the same frame with fixed sights. Frame-mounted firing pins occur only in company with adjustable sights.
There are further correlations that can be distinguished based on barrel length, but that gets into the questions that OP raised on the top of this thread.
I'm not sure that saying all this was worth the electrons required to do so, because it is mostly intuitively obvious. But some days the OCD demons prod one a little more aggressively than they do on other days.
I'm having an out-of-beer experience right now, and may go solve that problem to take a break from the rigors of systematic description. Cheers, all.
They had adjustable sights or they didn't.
They had rebated frames or they didn't.
They had frame-mounted firing pins or they didn't.
Based on these three distinguishing features, we may observe:
Adjustable sight guns can be found with both types of firing pin and both types of grip frame. Fixed sight guns can be found with both types of grip frame, but only with hammer-mounted firing pins.
Non-rebated frames can be found with both fixed and adjustable sights. Rebated frames can also be found with both fixed and adjustable sights.
Frame-mounted firing pins are found with both types of grip frame, but do not appear on the same frame with fixed sights. Frame-mounted firing pins occur only in company with adjustable sights.
There are further correlations that can be distinguished based on barrel length, but that gets into the questions that OP raised on the top of this thread.
I'm not sure that saying all this was worth the electrons required to do so, because it is mostly intuitively obvious. But some days the OCD demons prod one a little more aggressively than they do on other days.
I'm having an out-of-beer experience right now, and may go solve that problem to take a break from the rigors of systematic description. Cheers, all.
semperfi71
US Veteran
Hondo44,
Great tutorial. I do not currently have any I-Frames but will be looking for them in the future.
I too saved it to a file so I can refer to it in the future.
Great tutorial. I do not currently have any I-Frames but will be looking for them in the future.
I too saved it to a file so I can refer to it in the future.
Smithhound
US Veteran
Just picked up today a post war .32 Regulation Police, 3 1/4" barrel, nickle. Original postwar stocks, prewar front site, 5 screw but with the coil mainspring.
Overall condition is 95%++, no box (sadly) has been fired very little, barely a turn line. Checkering strong on stocks, all matching numbers on frame, barrel, cylinder & stocks.
Paid a very reasonable $340 for it and could not be happier.
Do not know if this is an I frame or improved I frame as it has the coil mainspring, but also the trigger gaurd screw. All screws look untouched, needs minor cleaning.
Will post pic's tomorrow evening, dog tired right now.
Oh yeah, S/N is 5924xx. I'm guessing 1950/51 but will letter this one.
RD
Overall condition is 95%++, no box (sadly) has been fired very little, barely a turn line. Checkering strong on stocks, all matching numbers on frame, barrel, cylinder & stocks.
Paid a very reasonable $340 for it and could not be happier.
Do not know if this is an I frame or improved I frame as it has the coil mainspring, but also the trigger gaurd screw. All screws look untouched, needs minor cleaning.
Will post pic's tomorrow evening, dog tired right now.
Oh yeah, S/N is 5924xx. I'm guessing 1950/51 but will letter this one.
RD
Very nice find and great price for the description you gave! Can't wait to see it.
You gave just the right information for me to know that you have an I frame, 1st Improvement. Reg Police if square butt, 1903 Hand Ejector if Rd Butt. Go to my description, category 3 on page two of this thread to see what other characteristics it has. I think you're very close on the date which puts it in the period where it might have plastic or steel medallions in the grips. Check with a magnet for steel. Look on back of grip and it will be obvious if plastic.
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H. M. Pope
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
This is what I have in I frames at this time, all Target sighted guns as I need to adjust the sights to hit what I'm aiming at, from the beginning
( 1896 ), to the end ( 1957 ).
I've shot them all except the 1896, it has had 6
rounds fired through it but not by me. I just cant bring myself to shoot it.
Only have one of what I call my "Pimp" gun, it has original S&W pearl grips, it's a very hard gun to shoot accurately with those grips unless your close and the targets are big.
Regards
H. M. Pope
( 1896 ), to the end ( 1957 ).
I've shot them all except the 1896, it has had 6
rounds fired through it but not by me. I just cant bring myself to shoot it.
Only have one of what I call my "Pimp" gun, it has original S&W pearl grips, it's a very hard gun to shoot accurately with those grips unless your close and the targets are big.
Regards
H. M. Pope
Attachments
H. M. Pope
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
H. M. Pope.
You have a collection of eight screamers, 4 .32s and 4 .22/32s.
The pre war 22/32 Kit Gun has the less commonly seen front sight like your two pre 1920 22/32 Heavy Frame Targets. And your post war 22/32 Kit gun Transitional is another very hard to find model in any condition but especially the condition of yours. I'd like to see the other side of it so I could see the thumblatch.
Thanks!
You have a collection of eight screamers, 4 .32s and 4 .22/32s.
The pre war 22/32 Kit Gun has the less commonly seen front sight like your two pre 1920 22/32 Heavy Frame Targets. And your post war 22/32 Kit gun Transitional is another very hard to find model in any condition but especially the condition of yours. I'd like to see the other side of it so I could see the thumblatch.
Thanks!
Glad I found this thread. Saw a .32 RP in a pawnshop yesterday. It was in about 99% condition with the rebated grips. The shop owner said he had looked up the date and it was from 1941.Anyway, what I noticed about the gun was the ejector nob was different than any of my RP's and now I see it's different than any of the guns pictured in this thread. It was not a mushroom head but the barrel was cut for one.The end itself was barrel shaped and fluted. Kind of in between the mushroom and the straight rod size. I know this is a poor description, but it was something I noticed that struck me as odd. Is there anything to this?
Smithhound, From your S/N it is a mid to late 1952 issue, based on my S/N 60009X that was shipped Jan. 1953. Sounds like the same gun, unfortunately my grips are not original and only recently found them, but are at least period correct.
Combat,
Sounds like a very nice find. Was it reasonably priced? If the shop owner is correect about the date of 1941, the ejector knob should be the second type; barrel shaped but knurled as you indicated instead of fluted and the barrel would have a single cut. It would not have had a mushroom head in 1941 which requires a 2 step cut under the barrel. The fluted knob that you describe must be an add on or custom knob. Occasionally we will see mushroom heads used as replacements for the barrel shaped 2nd style knob, but cut down to fit the single cut under the barrel. I hope I made this understandable.
The correct ejector knob/rod (one piece) is readily avaiable and inexpensive if you decide to buy it and want to restore it to original. Just let me know and I can supply several sources.
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Smithhound, From your S/N it is a mid to late 1952 issue, based on my S/N 60009X that was shipped Jan. 1953. Sounds like the same gun, unfortunately my grips are not original and only recently found them, but are at least period correct.
H Richard,
That's a very nice specimen of a post war I Frame 1st improvement Hand Ejector (due to the round butt). You should get a factory letter to go with such a nice gun.
H. M. Pope
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
Jim,
Sorry to say I only have seven.
Both 22/32 Kit guns that I pictured are Pre-War and in fact are the same gun, shipped in 1938, the only Post War gun in those photos is the 1957 H. E. 32 Kit Gun.
I bought that 22/32 Kit Gun many, many, years ago and it came with both sets of grips, the extension grips are numbered to the gun and the pearl grips are also numbered to the gun in pencil, both sets of grips fit perfect. I only up loaded the photo of it to show how it looks with pearl grips.
I believe that the Paine front sight on this gun was not done by the factory as there are some very fine ding marks around the sight pin, it's hard to tell, maybe a factory letter would say something about the grips and the sight, then again maybe not. I'm not to concerned about it as that's the way I bought it so that's the way it will stay. Take a look at to other 22/32 photo for a look at the thumb latch.
Regards
H. M. Pope
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