Some Lessons from Life

[biku324]

Here is a video that will likely be used to train police in the future - the deputy that fired is currently charged with murder. There are lessons for civilians as well.

https://youtu.be/Nk-udtauTTM

Lesson 1 - Things happen fast.
Lesson 2 - Look, listen, observe - don't stop, even if you've fired.
Lesson 3 - Don't shoot anyone who is on the ground from your position of cover once they fell after your first 3 or 4 rounds until you've hit them 19 times because they're, "... still moving."
Lesson 4 - Remain in control pf yourself - you need to be able to turn on and turn off your use of force once the threat stops for whatever reason.

The first few rounds were a tragic, somewhat understandable mistake. The mag dump became murder charges.

 

[pantannojack]

Yep. That's murder.

 

[CALREB]

Really sad, all the way around. I won't comment further on this shooting. I do tell others and would practice great care during any police contact.

In trying to research this shooting, I must say that for a town of 30 something thousand Alamogordo appears to be a really violent place.

 

[DR505]

In trying to research this shooting, I must say that for a town of 30 something thousand Alamogordo appears to be a really violent place.

It is in New Mexico, so that explains much. I left in 2017 after living 14 years in NM having watched it decline precipitously.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Yes, putting a "be sure" into a downed opponent, OK for the British SAS but
not for the rest of us.
I often think the trend toward high capacity magazines encourages a 'spray and pray" mentality.

 

[chief38]

It is obvious to me the Officer was either poorly trained or did not belong on the Police Dept. because of poor judgment and reaction skills. It was plain for us to see that the suspect tossed the "BB Gun" away, but even in the heat of the moment if the Officer did not realize that right away, after the treat was neutralized, he had no business shooting the full magazine into the suspect.

A tragedy for both parties involved! The suspect is dead and the Officer's career and life as he knew it is over. Better training and or better Officer selection needs to be priority one.

 

[moosedog]

What a mess. Stress can cause some irrational judgments.

 

[cracker57]

Can the OP please explain lesson #2
Lesson 2 - Look, listen, observe - don't stop, even if you've fired.
I am confused over the "don't stop, even if you've fired.

 

[Bald1]

He means continue to look listen and observe after firing

 

[biku324]

Can the OP please explain lesson #2
Lesson 2 - Look, listen, observe - don't stop, even if you've fired.
I am confused over the "don't stop, even if you've fired.

Yes - the decedent was shouting, "It's a BB gun" even when hit and down.

Let me add #5 - Assume there is audio and video of everything, everywhere.

 

[6518John]

I frankly am surprised the officer was charged with anything. These body cam videos that only show part of the scene are highly deceptive at best.

We can’t see what the suspect is doing on the ground. But we can clearly hear the officer say, before he has spoken to an attorney or union rep, “I can’t render aid, he is laying on the gun!”

So the officer clearly thought he was still in danger of being shot and fired until he thought the threat was neutralized. It’s easy to arm chair quarterback the policeman’s decision to keep shooting, even after the suspect is down. But it is clear the officer thought the suspect was still armed and a danger to him.

Moreover, is the officer expected to believe the suspect’s claim that “it’s just a BB gun!” I sure wouldn’t, especially considering how the suspect was acting. He was ignoring the officers commands, continuing to approach, and HIDING the gun under his shirt.

I would like to see the toxicology on the kid because he was sure acting weird. Ignoring an officers commands, hiding a gun under his shirt, continuing to approach a policeman in the middle of the night, in the middle of nowhere. It all sounds like a formula for getting shot by the police.

Anyone with any sense, or not impaired, I would think would drop the BB gun immediately, show ones hand and that you are not a threat, and comply with the officer’s commands to stop approaching him.

I could see maybe some retraining of the young officer, but not charging him with any crime.

 

[WR Moore]

Concur with the "somewhat understandable" on the first shots.....but wonder if the officer was using cover. I wasn't there and video distorts distance & threat, but if he had cover and some distance, taking the split second to see him drop/throw the piece could have made a world of difference.

A study published by the Force Science Institute has shown that a prone subject with concealed hands can produce a firearm and fire a shot in a mean time of 0.61 seconds. The time from seeing an object in the subject’s hand to shot is a mean time of 0.36 seconds. This is just about enough time to realize a threat exists, not enough for most to take action. It’s possible for an attacker to draw and fire a gun tucked into their belt in 0.09 seconds. That’s much less than reaction time.

 

[biku324]

The problem is that of 'preclusion.' The NM LEOC use of force training for decades has been use of deadly force is to be used when there is a perceived, imminent deadly threat and the circumstances preclude them from taking any other action to stop the deadly threat (to them or a vulnerable, present other person). The deputy had cover, he had concealment (his headlights takedown, and spotlight were in the suspects face), and instead of the wounded, down suspect firing anything, he was shouting, "It's a BB gun," trying to (in tactical terms) de-escalate.

The deputy is both young and new (to policing).

 

[Krogen]

The only time I had a potentially dangerous situation with a LEO was at my home. My alarm had gone off. The old system was prone to false alarms and I cancelled the police dispatch and headed home to check. The alarm company dispatched police anyway. As I was heading out the front door, police were in the driveway. I stopped in my tracks, put my hands up and said "I'm the homeowner, what do you want me to do?" He approached, I gave him my ID and all was fine. I apologized for the unnecessary call. He initially had no idea who I was or what I was doing. Things could have gone bad quickly if I acted poorly or attempted to drive the situation myself. Presence of mind, and the absence of mind-altering substances or mental issues made for a safe outcome.

 

[M29since14]

This may be first degree stupidity, or first degree overreaction, or first degree incompetence, but it doesn’t look like first degree murder. I’m not a lawyer in NM, obviously, or anywhere else, but I doubt the officer would even be charged with something like involuntary manslaughter if that happened here in Indiana. It looks like someone is playing politics. Imagine that.

I’m always leery of making judgments using internet videos as evidence. They are too easily manipulated. From what is shown, and it is very little, it appears the officer made a terrible mistake and as a result he probably should be terminated - but he won’t be. In police killings of private citizens in the US, it seems the trend gets lower and lower for recognizing the value of human life on the other side of the badge. That may not actually be the case, but it APPEARS to be.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Yes, "those in the know have told me-shown me-how easy it is to edit, manipulate digital recordings, etc.

 

[biku324]

The released Otero County Sheriff's Office video shows the same actions on all four Albuquerque TV stations.

 

[biku324]

This may be first degree stupidity, or first degree overreaction, or first degree incompetence, but it doesn’t look like first degree murder. I’m not a lawyer in NM, obviously, or anywhere else, but I doubt the officer would even be charged with something like involuntary manslaughter if that happened here in Indiana. It looks like someone is playing politics. .

If you charge 1st degree (this is not capital murder) or second degree murder in NM, voluntary manslaughter can be considered by the jury.

 

[Mule Packer]

As I have said many times before, it's a mighty thin pancake that doesn't have two sides.

That being said, and although I am not an attorney, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the Hadley family will be able to afford a luxury condominium on the island of Oahu at the conclusion of all this.

 

[444 Magnum]

I'm not a LEO and the only interactions I've had with LEO have been mostly positive and professional.

Not being a LEO or having gone through the training and experience, my observations are this: The man was walking down the highway- not a crime- yes, it was at night, but still not a crime (or is it?)- when the shooting victim turned around and discarded the airsoft pistol, the LEO was already out of his vehicle and had his weapon drawn- that is my conclusion based on how fast he reacted with shots to the man's movements.

My questions:
1. Is it customary to stop and question just because someone's walking down the road? Maybe he wasn't walking steadily and appeared drunk? What was the reason for the inquiry and does there have to be a reason?
2. At what point does an officer draw his weapon? The speed with which he exited his vehicle and drew his weapon seems very swift. Opinions?

Funny story and only "bad" experience I ever had/witnessed with LEO's.

I was the manager of a small bank in a small town. It was broken into one night (no alarm system) and the burglars made off with a bag of coins that wasn't in the vault (the teller got lazy and left them out due to the weight). My assistant, Wanda, a middle aged woman, arrived early and saw the broken window. She called the police and me. When I arrived, she was standing in the back door with her hands raised- a local policeman had arrived and confronted her with pistol drawn. I told the officer "She's a bank employee, put your gun down, she's the one who called you." Wanda had quite the look on her face.

Later that morning, either the GBI or FBI showed up. I think it was the GBI, but I really don't remember. When they found out only a bag of coins had been taken, one of the officers pretended to get a report about an "individual downtown on a bike trying to pass bulk coins". That's what he relayed to his partner. "We're out of here!" he exclaimed as they rushed off to "investigate the report". We never heard from them or the police department again.