something went terribly wrong!

[grnhs]

Where in montana are you? I live in Billings and might be able to refer you to some very knowledgeable colleagues.
Randy

Hi Randy,
I'm in Havre.
I've loaded 10's of thousands of shotgun shells, lots of rifle, but I'm fairly new to this pistol loading and not really sure about the crimp importance etc.
I just ruined my new gun yesterday so I'm a little raw about it yet
Thanks for the non-judgemental response.
Dave

 

[brucev]

Just found this post. Sorry to read of your experience. No idea what could be the problem. Hope someone can help you figure it out. Sincerely. brucev.

 

[Rule3]

I chronograghed the first cylinder full, all fired.
I sand bagged the next cylinder full and no I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary since the sandbag suppressed the recoil and I was concentrating on sight alignment to see how it would print on paper.

Yes I should have stopped after the low muzzel velocity,
No the powder is not bad, only a couple of years old and stored correctly. I did find that I was not crimping and thus had loose seated bullets.
Yes I still feel like an idiot since it did happen to me and I am soley to blame.
3- 4 bullets stuck in the barrel is mind blowing to me also and am glad that I will probably only have to buy a new barrel.
I have gotten a different powder and will be checking everything after every shot for quite a while.
I'm suspecting that the PB is position sensitive also. but again, the bullets were not deep enough and were not crimped.
I have pulled all that were left and the PB goes back in the storage bin.
These bulk "Frontier" bullets are also suspect in my mind.
Until I understand fully what happened I will be a little on edge about reloads.

With this additional information I would agree it is not bad powder. It was just hard to understand from your original post.

A squib rounds makes a distinct low no recoil sound. Phift or something like that.

We have all errored so do not beat yourself up. I would be more than miffed myself. I have the same gun. You are not injured so that is the main thing.

Anyway. sounds like what you mentioned, seating depth and crimping.

Hogdon online (IMR lists 3.7 to 4.9 of PB for the Hornady XTP bullet. The max load of 4.9 is still anemic for a 357 Mag of 984 FPS out of a 10" barrel!

Cartridge Loads - Hodgdon Reloading Data Center - data.hodgdon.com

158 GR. HDY XTP PB .357" 1.580" 3.7 747 18,800 PSI 4.9 984 31,700 PSI


So a combination of a light load, no crimp and unknown seating depth seems to be the dilemma.

Do you have any other powders? There are many that would work better in the 357.

Hope your repair is not to costly.

We all live and learn from our mistakes, I have made much worse.

 

[grnhs]

With this additional information I would agree it is not bad powder. It was just hard to understand from your original post.

A squib rounds makes a distinct low no recoil sound. Phift or something like that.

We have all errored so do not beat yourself up. I would be more than miffed myself. I have the same gun. You are not injured so that is the main thing.

Anyway. sounds like what you mentioned, seating depth and crimping.

Hogdon online (IMR lists 3.7 to 4.9 of PB for the Hornady XTP bullet. The max load of 4.9 is still anemic for a 357 Mag of 984 FPS out of a 10" barrel!

Cartridge Loads - Hodgdon Reloading Data Center - data.hodgdon.com

158 GR. HDY XTP PB .357" 1.580" 3.7 747 18,800 PSI 4.9 984 31,700 PSI


So a combination of a light load, no crimp and unknown seating depth seems to be the dilemma.

Do you have any other powders? There are many that would work better in the 357.

Hope your repair is not to costly.

We all live and learn from our mistakes, I have made much worse.

The loads that stuck were 38 special, loaded with 158gr fmj and 3.7gr PB.
the IMR load data calls for 3.5- 3.9gr.
Is that a real possibility that the crimp(or lack of one) could have done this?
Thanks for the help.

 

[SteveG48]

Is that a real possibility that the crimp(or lack of one) could have done this?
Thanks for the help.

It's hard for me to imagine that a bad crimp or no crimp could cause this drastic a failure. When you pulled the bullets on the remaining rounds, did you weigh any of the charges? Did you check any of the recovered powder to see if it would ignite?

 

[grnhs]

It's hard for me to imagine that a bad crimp or no crimp could cause this drastic a failure. When you pulled the bullets on the remaining rounds, did you weigh any of the charges? Did you check any of the recovered powder to see if it would ignite?

I did not try to light any of the powder, but they did weigh out
accurate.
I will have to pour a little out on the concrete and see how it goes up.
either way I'm not loading any more of the pb I got a pound of VV3N37.
Thanks

 

[SteveG48]

Thanks.

This one is a real puzzler. That amount of powder should not have allowed a multi-bullet blocked barrel without a large kaboom. I'll be interested in the results of the flame test.

 

[riverrat38]

Was the barrel visibly damaged? If the loads were true squibs, maybe there is no damage to the barrel. There would not be much energy involved when one round hit the next.

rat

 

[Rule3]

The loads that stuck were 38 special, loaded with 158gr fmj and 3.7gr PB.
the IMR load data calls for 3.5- 3.9gr.
Is that a real possibility that the crimp(or lack of one) could have done this?
Thanks for the help.

Sorry I did not read you original post correctly. Your powder charge for 38 special was fine based on the Hodgdon load data.

The bullets should have had enough neck tension even without a firm crimp. The unfired rounds would have had the bullets move out if not enough crimp creating a bigger volume in the case but not enough to jam the cylinder. (if they had been 357 brass if the bullets moved you would lock up the cylinder.)

I would not think it would be enough to squib the rounds but apparently something did.

You state you weighed the powder from the pulled rounds and it was correct so I am at a loss now myself?? Unless the misfires did not get a full charge??

Try another powder is all I can suggest. Test your powder drop for every round to see if it functions correctly.

 

[1sgpierce]

The lack of a crimp could be part of the problem. The purpose of crimping is to prevent the bullet from moving, and allow pressure from the burning powder to build to a point where it can overcome the crimp. If the load doesn't generate sufficient pressure while burning you can have a bullet leave the cylinder at a low velocity and then stop part way down the barrel due to the lack of sufficient velocity to push it out and then others hitting and stopping behind it. I had a similar thing happen to me in the 70's with a colt python. Stuck 5 bullets in the barrel with no external damage (This was due to leaving powder in the plastic measure). Most likely, they can remove the slugs without replacing the barrel.

 

[5-Shot]

Just some wild speculation here: Since a crimp serves to keep a bullet from backing out of the case while other rounds are being fired could you have had some some bullets back out and just lie in their chamber throats? I bet that would allow gas to escape around the bullet and perhaps create a squib load.

Ed

 

[oldCop]

I don't know how sensitive PB is to crimp pressure, but many years ago I stuck a couple in a .44 Mag the first time I used H110 because of insufficient crimp. Some powders are also very unfriendly to reduced loads, but it doesn't sound like your powder weight was a factor. I'm betting on crimp and/or seating depth.

 

[grnhs]

I don't know how sensitive PB is to crimp pressure, but many years ago I stuck a couple in a .44 Mag the first time I used H110 because of insufficient crimp. Some powders are also very unfriendly to reduced loads, but it doesn't sound like your powder weight was a factor. I'm betting on crimp and/or seating depth.

Right on both counts. I had a long talk this morning with the retired chief of police who used to shoot a lot of competition.
He said that PB is more sensitive to getting the initial pressure generated by a good crimp and that the crimp is critical to good velocity, in this instance anyway.
I loaded up some more with .2grain more powder and a moderate crimp and got 200fps boost in my velocity. I looked at his crimps and I am going to screw mine down a bit more before loading more. His was quite a bit heavier than mine.
I haven't heard from S&W yet but am confident that they will fix my new gun and have it back on the range.
Thanks for chiming in everybody, I have heard quite a few stuck bullet stories since this happened to me
Dave