Speaking of stupid people...

[Sistema1927]

I spent a year in the hell called "public school substitute teaching" about 30 years ago.

Yes, public schools do have to take all students, but they don't need to tolerate bad behavior. I had a long term substitute assignment teaching two units of 8th grade math. In one of my classes, I had a boy who never made it to the tardy bell without me bouncing him to the Principal's office. He just wouldn't behave. His Mom complained to the Principal (no Dad at home), but after I outlined his documented bad behavior the Principal told me to keep on doing what I was doing. The Principal also offered me a teaching contract, but I was smart enough to decline.

The rest of the students, most of them minority from low income homes, learned 8th grade math as well as I could teach it. The were all certainly better equipped to start High School.

As I stated earlier, while Public Schools need to take all students, they don't need to let bad behavior get in the way of education. If teachers aren't proactive in dealing with discipline problems, then everyone suffers. I wasn't going to allow one bad apple spoil the entire barrel.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

We had the Information Age in the 1950s. There was My Weekly Reader, a newspaper aimed at children. A real newspaper. I recall reading about the IGY-International Geophysics Year, NORAD and the DEW Line, it's then commander, Lauris Norstad. The woman who created it thought kids could learn to read just as well by reading about factual things as fairy tales, etc.
We had historical comic books, and yes, real history. One I can still see to this day-60+ years later. It was covering the admission of Texas to the Union, the panel showed an angry Santa Ana crushing the message he had just received about it and angrily declaring "Annexation means war !"
One way to deal with troublesome students is through participatory educational experiences, such as "Gestapo agents torture resistance fighter", "necktie party of the Old West", perhaps a Stalinist style purge trial or a Mao Tse Tung style "self criticism".

 

[Golddollar]

18" deep, 3 ft wide and 2 yard long. What is its volume in cubic feet? Show your work.

18" deep, 3 ft wide and 2 yard long converts to 1.5 feet x 3 feet x 6 feet. Reverse the order which will be mathematically the same and you have 6' x 3' = 18 square feet and multiply that by the depth of 1.5' and the total is 27 cubic feet (or 1 cubic yard).

I had to do a lot of land area calculations when I was working. 43,560 square feet to an acre has been burned into my brain forever.

 

[DWalt]

This goes back about 25 years. I had just inherited a newly-minted 2Lt graduate of the U. S. Air Force Academy. There was a large pile of newly excavated contaminated dirt on base, and as his first task I sent him over to measure it and calculate approximately how many cubic yards it was. He failed miserably. He actually never improved and I was very happy to get rid of him later. I gave him a less than glowing OPR, which was immediately bounced back to me by the Colonel for a re-write. After all, we can't have any academy graduates getting a poor OPR.

He got transferred to a do-nothing job in Military Family Housing. That kid left the AF as soon as his required service time was up. No surprise.

 

[BC38]

The young lady at the fast food place
referred to by the OP was quite correct.
Her computer register is for 6, not a
half dozen. The OP should learn to
speak the language of that fast food
chain. It is not up to the employee to
learn the OP's language.

We all need to speak McDonalds, because the employees don't know English? Uh, OK....

 

[BC38]

Don't know any of you personally, so not saying this applies to anyone here, but in my life experience it always seems like the people who rail against public schools the loudest are also the ones who vote against local bond measures to fund said public schools and vote for state and local politicians who promise to cut the budget. People need to understand they can't have it both ways - if we starve public schools of resources, the education will necessarily suffer. A desk, a slate board, and a piece of chalk are not sufficient to educate people for the 21st century economy.

Funny enough, the people whining about public schools are often also the ones screaming about "personal responsibility" - but never take the time to actually teach their children anything. My 6-year-old can make change - though not necessarily with the most efficient use of coins - because I taught her what the coins represent and combined that with a basic lesson in addition and subtraction.

Also, if you think things are bad now, imagine what the population was like at the time it was determined that compulsory education was a matter of national security.

I'm sure I'll get a point for this because what's considered "political" on this board is clearly more a matter of viewpoint rather than strictly based on subject matter. But, it needs to be said.

I don't really think it is a function of money - or lack of money.
In my area the AVERAGE amount of $ spent per student is just over $6,000 per year.
The local high school 6 blocks away has roughly 2,200 students. At $6,000 per student that is $13,200,000 PER YEAR in spending for just that ONE high school. Over thirteen MILLION per year for ONE school.
That is more money than the Fortune 100 company I worked for most of my career spent to staff and maintain a dozen of the facilities that I was responsible for.
Money is NOT the problem.
My 21 year old kid graduated from that school 4 years ago - but just barely. But they absolutely bent over backwards to make sure he graduated. He refused to really put in any effort because he knew they would do whatever they had to in order to "pass" him - whether he learned anything, or even did the work - or not. He just wasn't/isn't an academic type, so he knew he wouldn't be getting a college degree. So instead took his high school diploma and enrolled in the local community college to get a 2 year certification in automotive tech, and he is now working as a mechanic.
That's all well and good, but the point is that when the schools make it virtually impossible for a kid to fail - and the kids all know it - there isn't much a parent can do to "motivate" an unmotivated kid to do better, and the schools graduate them knowing next to nothing.

 

[Igiveup]

Old saying in my country family, "Ya can't fix stupid".

 

[Rustyt1953]

 

[BigBoy99]

Years ago the National Geographic Society in Washington, DC would take a world map out on the street and ask passer-bys to show where the US was located on the map. They stopped the project when over 80% of the people asked couldn't find the US on a world map.

 

[kenjen]

watch the movie "Idiocracy" the future of the human race.

 

[Donn]

Sadly, it's nothing new, and even the computer age isn't immune. Some years back, Dad, (he passed in 1995), and I went to the local Target. Motor oil was on sale for 29 cents a quart. Dad got a case, put it in the cart, went to the register. Cashier scanned it, 29 cents. Dad says there's a mistake, I have a case, that's the quart price. Cashier insists the computer's right. Trying to do the right thing, the old man goes to the service desk, gets the same response, "The computer's right." Dad ran up the white flag, went home with 12 quarts of oil for 29 cents. Some days you can't do the right thing, no matter how hard you try.

 

[JS Esq.]

Average spent per student is a potentially misleading statistic. The bulk of the middle require little more than grade-level curriculum and materials. But special-needs students and English-language learners can easily require order of magnitude more resources than the "average" student. These are the kids that regular private schools won't deal with but public schools are required to accommodate.

If a non-verbal kid in a wheelchair rolls up to the local parochial school, they may not overtly discriminate, but they'll do their best to convince the parents that their school is simply unable to meet the family's unique circumstances at that time. When they then enroll their kid in the local public school and establish an IEP, there'll be a full-time paraeducator accompanying the child, plus (at least) weekly sessions with physical therapists, occupational therapists, and speech pathologists - for starters. The district might even provide some in-home learning support, depending in part on whether they've ever been sued for failing to meet their ADA obligations. Needless to say, the cost to the district for that kid will blow up the "average" per-student cost.

Someone made a comment above about if there was more competition, there would be a private school for everyone. There already is - you just have to have $50,000 a year to pay for it. There was a daycare we looked at for our son that had a boutique K-8 school attached. They marketed themselves for highly individualized attention for severely autistic children (the K-8 portion, the daycare was just a daycare). It was one kid per classroom with three or four full-time employees per kid. How many families can afford that level of intensive services? Those that can't have no choice but to rely on the local public schools, who are required by law to accommodate those students and provide the resources necessary for them to successfully learn to the best of their ability.

Private and charter schools aren't automatically better. Many charter schools have failed entirely, sometimes leaving families without a schooling option in the middle of the year. Most others don't show any better results than local public schools. The few models that do show great success require long hours, significant buy-in from parents, and strict adherence to rules by the families, something that many (most?) families cannot manage.

There's no magic bullet for improving education. Money isn't a panacea, but there are areas where a small amount would make a great difference. I see it on the opposite end of the spectrum, with kids designated "gifted" who are left bored to tears at the pace of the regular classroom. The kid who are two grade levels behind in reading have aides come in and work with them, but there's nothing analogous for the kids who are two years above grade level.

 

[Onomea]

watch the movie "Idiocracy" the future of the human race.

Ya know, I tried to watch that a few weeks ago after reading a column by Max Boot opining that it was prescient of our current age. But, man-o-man, trying to watch it was so stupefying that I quit maybe ten minutes in. (Would be nice if one could turn off reality like that...)

 

[Rule3]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNyTqIsrk0w[/ame]

 

[Geronimo Jim]

Stop bashing the public schools. They might be short on teaching
math and history but they really do a good job on the environment.

 

[Turq]

A lot of negative Nellies on this thread. I know quite a few Public School teachers, and everyone of them is under paid and over dedicated to their profession (Much like LEO's). They all work hard and the job is not easy

I also think many of you are selling young people short ( it's the age old complaint, kids these days!). There is a lot of amazing kids out there ( including my own). I will actually feel better when they are in control and running things. I mean just look at what a great job us "smart" older guys have done.

 

[Golddollar]

I mean just look at what a great job us "smart" older guys have done.

I think the question is what happened since then.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Here in NJ "education " has been used by the politicians as the excuse for more government spending and the taxes to pay for it, yet...
NJ schools suffer from what I call the Rule of 75%-75% of school funding comes from non-parents, and 75% of parents can't be bothered with parent-teacher conferences, the PTA, attending their children's events, etc.
All those 6 year olds with 21 year old mothers living on the dole...
The secret to improving the public schools ? The dreaded T-word-tuition !
When parents have to shell out cold hard cash for their children's schooling and can no longer sponge and freeload off the rest of us...

 

[Patton1970]

...I was so pleased this very afternoon when I stopped at a roadside stand to grab some corn on the cob.

Young lady (late teen's?) said it was close to closing and corn was $3/12 ears. Cannot eat that much despite the deal and asked 'buck for 4?'

She smiled and said 'you're smart;' I was rather proud of her.

Be safe...be well.

We need more like her in the world.

 

[Golddollar]

Here in NJ "education " has been used by the politicians as the excuse for more government spending and the taxes to pay for it, yet...
NJ schools suffer from what I call the Rule of 75%-75% of school funding comes from non-parents, and 75% of parents can't be bothered with parent-teacher conferences, the PTA, attending their children's events, etc.
All those 6 year olds with 21 year old mothers living on the dole...
The secret to improving the public schools ? The dreaded T-word-tuition !
When parents have to shell out cold hard cash for their children's schooling and can no longer sponge and freeload off the rest of us...

I'll have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn 20 minutes after that happens.